D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[mamba]

The summer Olympics seem like things warriors should be good at.

good is not the same as winning everything and breaking a few records

A level 20 Fighter should be able to win the gold medal of every Summer Olympic competition and probably break a few records.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I don't think it's a problem with the game.

But is that the same thing as "I actively object to the books providing guidance to DMs on good ways to rule Illusions"?

Because that's what you seem to be doing. I don't think that it can be said enough: Just because the game is fine as-is does not mean that it can't be better.

 

[Undrave]

good is not the same as winning everything and breaking a few records

The level 20 guy should win all the gold medals.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why not? You can’t just pollute a game with every single idea that crosses your mind, that’s how you get FATAL. At some point in design, you have to identify and cut the fat.

Nah, Wisdom save means that the Illusion spells have outcomes you can anticipate, the same way as every other spell school. Just how you can tell certain enemies are probably better at reflex-y defences or fortitude-y defences you can expect which one will be able to tell the issue with your illusions.


Is it though? Running fast, jumping far, swimming, lifting heavy things, horseback riding, throwing things… Did you know the world record for a javelin throw is over 320 feet? That’s five time the greatest range of a thrown weapon in 5e. And let’s not forget the summer Olympics includes boxing, fencing, judo, karate, taekwondo, wrestling and archery. The summer Olympics seem like things warriors should be good at.

I'm not saying "simplicity and streamlining" shouldn't matter at all. I'm saying that that goal shouldn't be any designer' top priority.

 

[Undrave]

That does not mean I want them to run like The Flash or jump like Hulk

I'm talking about breaking real world record and you immediately jump to The Flash and The Hulk who beyond measurability in terms of strength. That's not a very fair comparison.

 

[Lanefan]

1) No it isn't. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

2) We are talking about problems with the game, not my game.

The game doesn't have rules for making illusions work, they depend on the DM to make constant spot rulings to the point that whether there's even a point to taking illusion spells varies from table to table. And it isn't just illusions. that's the problem. That's the discussion. No one is trapped in a dungeon, or on the supreme court, or in a bad social circle, or any thing else used to distract from the actual issue.

If the game had rules for illusions the whole point of playing an illusionist - where what a character can try to "create" is only limited by the caster's (i.e. player's) imagination - would vanish in a heartbeat.

Why? Because sure as shootin' those rules would all focus around limiting what the caster could create as an illusion, rather than how viewers would/could react and-or what the could/would perceive.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The level 20 guy should win everything.

Then perhaps games should stop at level 19.

 

[Undrave]

I'm not saying "simplicity and streamlining" shouldn't matter at all. I'm saying that that goal shouldn't be any designer' top priority.

At some point, when it comes to designing a book like a PHB, the page count starts to become an issue so it is totally something a professional production has to keep in mind.

 

[cbwjm]

This is why fighters used to have faster level progression than wizards. Removing that broke the class balance.

Well, they kind of had faster level progression. Assuming equal xp; when a fighter in 2e is level 20, a wizard is level 18. But when a fighter is level 9, a wizard is level 10. Xp tables back then were truly wonky.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, they kind of had faster level progression. Assuming equal xp; when a fighter in 2e is level 20, a wizard is level 18. But when a fighter is level 9, a wizard is level 10. Xp tables back then were truly wonky.

That's a problem with implementation, not concept.