D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Lanefan]

But the only way to slide it towards challenging is to have longer encounter days. That's not an independent slider, that's saying "you can play dungeon crawls or you can play easy mode" as if there's no such thing as challenge without attrition in games.

Or rejigger the rest-and-recovery system to make it less generous.

 

[Mannahnin]

This one isn't just a 5e thing: all WotC editions have had the same issues with their adventure writing.

Let's not pretend that most TSR modules didn't have similar issues. With excessively long descriptions and vital content often buried in the middle of paragraphs.

This is something OSR publishers like Necrotic Gnome have done invaluable work on in recent years, pioneering clearer layouts and formatting which WotC should certainly learn from if they want their modules to be more usable at the table.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Good - the supernatural should be flat out superior to the natural.

The mound of rippling muscle that grew up in a fantasy land should not be subject to the 'natural' of Earth.

 

[Raiztt]

What's your higher priority?

That the supernatural be superior to the natural, or that two characters of different classes but equal level should be roughly equal in power?

It seems like something has to give, here. Otherwise we run into BMX Bandit / Angel Summoner territory.

And I'm not sure where the steadfast attachment to having 20th (Epic) level Fighters confirm to or be weaker than real world warriors and athletes comes from. Who are the fictional models for a 20th level Fighter? Who are the examples their rules should allow players to emulate? Beowulf? Hercules? John Carter of Mars?

For me, the supernatural should be flat out more powerful than the mundane. The supernatural is by definition what is above or beyond what is natural or mundane. Which is to say, I don't think that classes should be equal. The only way a fighter should be able to get onto the even footing with a wizard or caster should be if they have magic items to shore up the difference.

 

[Undrave]

That's the thing we need to dictate the most. "The T-Rex believes the juicy pile of meat, but it just really wants you to die because this combat is happening no matter what you want, illusionist player."

That kinda blurs the line with enchantment and mind control effects no?

 

[Raiztt]

Then the Fighter should just stop at level 10. There's no point in continuing afterwards.

Im good with that - I'd even be good with mundane classes leveling up faster than mystical classes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Ya know, I think it would have been cool if Fighters got more Fighting Styles as they advanced until they could potentially have all the PHB Fighting style by the end of their progression. The Fighting Style could have had stackable effect so you could choose to specialize by taking the same Fighting Style multiple times and improve the bonus or go for versatility. It would have made stuff like Protection (good early on, falls off when enemy gets too many attack) more popular.

Then the Fighter should just stop at level 10. There's no point in continuing afterwards.

I think 'Command' should be a closer example for what Illusions could work.

Or everyone can stop at 13-14, and make sure fighters are sufficiently bad-ass until then.

 

[Lanefan]

Nobody has yet to disagree with my statement regarding the missing Dungeonborn.

Ah, but you see, they already exist!

You're just coming at it from the wrong end of life. They're not Dungeonborn, they're Dungeondead - in other words, they're the hordes of undead we've been destroying for all these years.

 

[cbwjm]

That's a problem with implementation, not concept.

Sure, but the concept hardly matters when that's the implementation that was ADnD, the different speed at which they levelled was barely noticeable back then as a fighter and a wizard would be within a level of each other for much of there career.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, but the concept hardly matters when that's the implementation that was ADnD, the different speed at which they levelled was barely noticeable back then as a fighter and a wizard would be within a level of each other for much of there career.

It does if the concept was implemented better elsewhere, which it certainly has been, in more than one OSR game.