D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Raiztt]

Maybe the books should try to make the bad DMs better?

I'm not sure you can teach someone to be a better DM if they're determined to be a bad DM.

 

[Lanefan]

That kinda blurs the line with enchantment and mind control effects no?

To some extent illusions are a mind control effect - you're tricking people into perceiving something that isn't there (or, occasionally, tricking them into not perceiving something that is there).

The difference is that with an illusion the mind control is indirect, via the viewer's perception, rather than direct as with psionic or charm-like effects.

 

[Raiztt]

How do you feel about Gygax telling us in 1E that all high level characters are bestowed and empowered with divine favor (whether or not they've sworn to a deity) because of their increasing significance in the cosmic balance/struggle? That hit points and saving throws, beyond a certain point, factor in this divine favor and endowment?

I don't care what Gygax thought.

Who are your preferred examples of max-level fantasy Fighters, whom D&D characters should match? I suggested Beowulf, Hercules, and John Carter of Mars.

Maybe conan, but I'm not familiar enough with that literature to know if he has any supernatural powers. I would just say a 20th level mundane, with no supernatural assistance, cannot overcome the limitations of their own biology/nature.

 

[Lanefan]

Ah, but you see, the Dragonborn is a playable race that lets you play a watered down dragon, and thus the Dungeonborn should let you play a watered down Dungeon!

"So I'd like to introduce my new character Dunny. He's a flooded dungeon, so he's not very mobile; and while you all go off adventuring he'll just sit where he is and be wet."

 

[Oofta]

Nobody has yet to disagree with my statement regarding the missing Dungeonborn.

We’re talking about an epic level fighter here! A level 20 guys who challenges he gods themselves! I expect a guy who makes it to that level to outrun Usain Bolt in full plate while carrying his portable armory of legendary weapons he won from mighty foes. The Wizard can wield cosmic powers but a guy breaking a couple world records is somehow too far for the mast level of DnD?! We’re not talking about a guy who plays softball once a week or something here! The Champion’s level 7 ability is called ‘Remarkable Athlete’, there’s you ‘good but not specialized athlete’ goes. That naughty word should be left behind after level 10.

Augh…

This type of, from my perspective, unreasonable take is what keeps the Fighter in the trash. It’s like you don’t want them to get better when they level up, or their level means less than a Wizard’s level regardless of the fact they take the same XP to reach.

If I want a PC that can run faster than Usain Bolt I'll run a monk. Or just take an eldritch knight and misty step, instantaneous teleportation for the win!

 

[Gammadoodler]

I don't care what Gygax thought.

Maybe conan, but I'm not familiar enough with that literature to know if he has any supernatural powers. I would just say a 20th level mundane, with no supernatural assistance, cannot overcome the limitations of their own biology/nature.

The only thing they can do..in a very commonplace..quotidian way..

..is effortlessly kill bears, lions, elephants wolves..ogres..trolls..zombies..slimes..giants..creatures from beyond space..elemental fire creatures..devils..demons..angels..and more

..with just a bit of wood, leather and steel

..but outside of that..normal..ordinary even.

Certainly not special in any meaningful way.

 

[Oofta]

I don't think these are entirely incompatible positions.

The game could give DMs and players a half page or so of general info and advice on how illusions are supposed to work, and still fall back on a Will save if the DM rules that the monster has reason to disbelieve. You can potentially have BOTH. Powerful illusions which "just work" if the player is creative and the DM agrees that the application makes sense, with the fallback of the Will save if the DM is not convinced/has a real reason why the NPC/monster has access to data which might poke a hole in the illusion.

I use intelligence saves. At least until the NPC/monster interacts with the illusion. But I admit I have a hard time figuring out how to run illusions, it's not mind control but it's also not creating reality.

 

[Minigiant]

Doesn’t necessarily have to be complex. Like I don’t think that’s a good design goal.

It will be more complex than you think. A system that has LR, SR, and SR+LR options won't be simple.

Why request? Just bake in that they can change it if it isn’t working

Respeccing is a DM request.

 

[Raiztt]

The only thing they can do..in a very commonplace..quotidian way..

..is effortlessly kill bears, lions, elephants wolves..ogres..trolls..zombies..slimes..giants..creatures from beyond space..elemental fire creatures..devils..demons..angels..and more

..with just a bit of wood, leather and steel

..but outside of that..normal..ordinary even.

Certainly not special in any meaningful way.

These creatures need to be much tougher then, you're right.

 

[mamba]

I'm talking about breaking real world record and you immediately jump to The Flash and The Hulk who beyond measurability in terms of strength. That's not a very fair comparison.

Outrunning Usain Bolt in full plate is not that much less. I find both equally realistic and desirable.