D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

I dunno - sitting at the table doing all that calculating seems like a fine alternative to actually shovelling the snow off the driveway. :)
Bah. Shoveling snow? Well, what kind of snow? Light and fluffy? Half melted? Heavy wet stuff that started falling when the ground was still warm so the bottom inch or so needs to be removed with a hammer and chisel? Details man, details!
 

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The real problem here is not dumping STR.

The problem is too much stuff is DEX-only in 5E, and the single-stat save system is blitheringly stupid, and I don't think anyone on these boards even particularly likes it and I know D&D players in general don't. It's just an outright bad design.
And the problem isn't even Dex-based characters. It's that almost every single character has Dex and Con as their second and third highest stats unless (a) they are Dex primary or (b) wear heavy armour. This only got worse with decoupling stats from race and is going to get worse again in D&Done where 90% of characters starting array will be 17/14/14/12/10/8 with the 17 in their primary stats and the two 14s in Dex and Con.
You need to look at other parts of the system. STR isn't dumped as much as it could be, for example, because of stuff like Heavy Armour (STR 15 needed) and Great Weapon Mastery (there are no 2-h finesse weapons, thank god). No DEX Fighter is ever going to outdamage a GWM STR Fighter, let alone a GWM/PAM, not with without nuclear-grade cheese and probably multiclassing.
It's not just Strength; there are very definitely two tiers of stat and I think that for off-stat purposes Int and Cha are dumped about as much as Str. But for saves Dex, Con, Wis >> Str, Int, Cha. And the three low tier stats have no equivalent to initiative +AC, hp, or passive perception. (Cha being dumped a lot isn't as obvious because it's a common trope and because four classes make very heavy use of it so you almost never find an entire party that's dumped cha).

The other issue here is that Great Weapon Master isn't actually that good without an accuracy buff. With something like the barbarian's Reckless Attack or the Battlemaster's Precise Strike it's awesome but duelist style > great weapon fighter, and -5 to hit for +10 damage is situational especially compared to an ASI. Of course the best one handed builds are duelist style spear and shield with PAM. If you aren't on a bonus action heavy build anyway. So dex + rapier is definitely viable for a sword & board fighter up to level 6 (and Sentinel and Lucky are hardly bad feats).
A subsidiary problem is that 5E forgot that Composite Bows exist. If it added them back in with the simple "Use STR to hit and damage" rule then sudden the ranged advantage vanishes too and STR and DEX are looking a lot closer or even STR is looking better. Plus the AC thing only helps up to 14 DEX unless you're in Light armour so that's wildly overstated as an advantage. It's not like 2E or something.
Not really tbh. As I said, dex primary builds are fine - there are dex primary rogues, rangers, and fighters. It's as a secondary stat where Str falls apart. No one cares about carrying capacity and athletics becomes redundant with things like flight and spider climb.
 

Once Survival is no longer the challenge.

Especially if resource Management is the basis of survival.

Most of these games move from resource management after a while.
I've been playing Valheim since it first released. Never have I not had to gather resources. Same with most every other survival game I've ever played.

Besides, you said survival games were very niche, and then you redefined what a survival game is to make your statement true. I'm not falling for that rhetorical ploy.
 
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It's not a survival game if the "survival" element stops being an issue almost immediately.

It's notable that there are "real" survival games where survival remains a major element - you get better at it, but you don't just invalidate it - Green Hell for example. But they're across-the-board less popular than the ones where it goes away. Some it lasts a lot longer too, like The Long Dark - and again this seems to correlate to being less popular. Not unpopular, but none of the market leaders feature much actual survival sadly.
I'm ok with a spectrum of survival. It doesn't have to be a roguelike. And what survival game is it where it stops being a survival game "almost immediately"?
 

Do you really think people would give up spellcasting if there were a few more restrictions on its use?
It depends on what those restrictions are, and how annoying they are to deal with. For example, when I was playing AD&D, people rarely played Wizards in my experience. Curious as to why (since it sounded like a cool class), I played one. Soon I found that as if limited spell slots, almost no survivability, slow xp progression, and being the bottom tier of usefulness when I couldn't use magic wasn't enough, I had the additional issues of:

*Dependent on RNG or DM mercy for new spells.
*Scribing spells into my spellbook were expensive.
*Some spells requiring difficult to acquire and/or expensive components.
*Instantly losing a spell if I took the slightest amount of damage (on top of losing my Dexterity bonus to AC).
*Most spells being "save (neg.)" and saving throws becoming more likely as I leveled instead of less.
*The occasional case of a spell not working as advertised on an opponent.
*Magic resistance being handed out like candy to various monsters.

Despite playing for decades, my highest level AD&D Wizard is 9th, while my highest level non-Wizard has reached such a ridiculous level of power that we don't even track xp or use a character sheet anymore- there's not much point. They haven't ascended to godhood or anything, but they regularly deal with such powerful entities.

AD&D players will tell you that this is working as intended, because Wizards eventually gain mighty spells (amusingly ignoring the fact that none of the above issues ever go away, at best you can mitigate them- and most of the ways to do that require magic items or specific spells that you again, have little control over acquiring).

However, the game really kind of wants someone to be playing a Wizard- there are challenges that require their spells as the game progresses. But if the only people who play Wizards are those who enjoy playing on hard mode, and no one in your group is feeling like that kind of challenge, you have no Wizards.

Which puts the onus on the DM to either adjust the challenges so the party doesn't need a Wizard, or chuckle at the foolishness of the players for not doing so when the adventure calls for Wizard magic.

I mean heck, TSR noticed that people weren't wanting to play Clerics, despite them having several advantages over the Wizard (more hit points, way better armor, bonus spells for high Wisdom, hypothetical access to almost every Cleric spell ever created on any given day) and seriously ramped up the power of mythos priests, until they were literally the most powerful classes in the game by the late 90's, presumably all in an effort to lure people into playing the healer!

WotC came to the conclusion that the ideal party was Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, and Thief Rogue, and made adjustments to the classes in an effort to make sure someone would actually want to play these classes (to varying degrees of success); something they still struggle with to this day!

And really, when it comes to Wizards, what has really changed?

*Scribing spells into my spellbook are expensive.
*Some spells requiring difficult to acquire and/or expensive components.
*The occasional case of a spell not working as advertised on an opponent.
*Magic resistance being handed out like candy to various monsters.

Are all still true, so it's only:

*Somewhat less Dependent on RNG or DM mercy for new spells.
*Have a chance to lose some spells when I take damage.
*Most spells being "save (neg.)" and saving throws becoming somewhat less likely to succeed as I gain levels.

A lot of people talk about the fact that Wizards are less encumbered than their past incarnations, but no one bats an eye at a class in a similar position, the Rogue.

The modern-day Rogue almost has nothing in common with the AD&D Thief; the almost impossible to employ Backstab morphed into a slightly easier to employ Sneak Attack, which continued to become easier until today it only has token restrictions at best- heck, they can use the ability at range more easily than in melee! Incredibly low chances to perform thieving abilities with scores of caveats has become game-warping bonuses to skills.

Imagine if you replaced the Rogue in 2024 with the 1e Thief class- how many people would play it, do you think?
 

I've been playing Valheim since it first released. Never have I not had to gather resources. Same with most every other survival game I've ever played.

Besides, you said survival games were very niche, and then you redefined what a survival game is to make your statement true. I'm not falling for that rhetorical ploy.
The top 3 Steam Survival games are these. And the top 2 barely are.

#NameCurrent24h PeakAll-Time Peak
1.Apex Legends93,875371,130624,473
2.PUBG: BATTLEGROUNDS59,907386,3483,257,248
3.Rust58,93290,774245,243
4.Unturned47,19462,852112,703
5.Dead by Daylight39,71256,526105,093

The point is Survival Games are niche. A Survival RPG that sticks to Survival would barely survival without a RPG or a more popular RPG propping up the industry.

This is why D&D never stayed as survival nor as resource management. They aren't popular.
 

It depends on what those restrictions are, and how annoying they are to deal with. For example, when I was playing AD&D, people rarely played Wizards in my experience. Curious as to why (since it sounded like a cool class), I played one. Soon I found that as if limited spell slots, almost no survivability, slow xp progression, and being the bottom tier of usefulness when I couldn't use magic wasn't enough, I had the additional issues of:

*Dependent on RNG or DM mercy for new spells.
*Scribing spells into my spellbook were expensive.
*Some spells requiring difficult to acquire and/or expensive components.
*Instantly losing a spell if I took the slightest amount of damage (on top of losing my Dexterity bonus to AC).
*Most spells being "save (neg.)" and saving throws becoming more likely as I leveled instead of less.
*The occasional case of a spell not working as advertised on an opponent.
*Magic resistance being handed out like candy to various monsters.

Despite playing for decades, my highest level AD&D Wizard is 9th, while my highest level non-Wizard has reached such a ridiculous level of power that we don't even track xp or use a character sheet anymore- there's not much point. They haven't ascended to godhood or anything, but they regularly deal with such powerful entities.

AD&D players will tell you that this is working as intended, because Wizards eventually gain mighty spells (amusingly ignoring the fact that none of the above issues ever go away, at best you can mitigate them- and most of the ways to do that require magic items or specific spells that you again, have little control over acquiring).

However, the game really kind of wants someone to be playing a Wizard- there are challenges that require their spells as the game progresses. But if the only people who play Wizards are those who enjoy playing on hard mode, and no one in your group is feeling like that kind of challenge, you have no Wizards.

Which puts the onus on the DM to either adjust the challenges so the party doesn't need a Wizard, or chuckle at the foolishness of the players for not doing so when the adventure calls for Wizard magic.

I mean heck, TSR noticed that people weren't wanting to play Clerics, despite them having several advantages over the Wizard (more hit points, way better armor, bonus spells for high Wisdom, hypothetical access to almost every Cleric spell ever created on any given day) and seriously ramped up the power of mythos priests, until they were literally the most powerful classes in the game by the late 90's, presumably all in an effort to lure people into playing the healer!

WotC came to the conclusion that the ideal party was Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, and Thief Rogue, and made adjustments to the classes in an effort to make sure someone would actually want to play these classes (to varying degrees of success); something they still struggle with to this day!

And really, when it comes to Wizards, what has really changed?

*Scribing spells into my spellbook are expensive.
*Some spells requiring difficult to acquire and/or expensive components.
*The occasional case of a spell not working as advertised on an opponent.
*Magic resistance being handed out like candy to various monsters.

Are all still true, so it's only:

*Somewhat less Dependent on RNG or DM mercy for new spells.
*Have a chance to lose some spells when I take damage.
*Most spells being "save (neg.)" and saving throws becoming somewhat less likely to succeed as I gain levels.

A lot of people talk about the fact that Wizards are less encumbered than their past incarnations, but no one bats an eye at a class in a similar position, the Rogue.

The modern-day Rogue almost has nothing in common with the AD&D Thief; the almost impossible to employ Backstab morphed into a slightly easier to employ Sneak Attack, which continued to become easier until today it only has token restrictions at best- heck, they can use the ability at range more easily than in melee! Incredibly low chances to perform thieving abilities with scores of caveats has become game-warping bonuses to skills.

Imagine if you replaced the Rogue in 2024 with the 1e Thief class- how many people would play it, do you think?
First of all, in AD&D that is working as intended, yes.

Secondly, I played 1e for nearly 30 years, and never once has no player wanted to be a wizard.

Finally, the 3e+ rogue isn't even the same kind of class as the 1e-2e thief. What WotC should have done was rework the class within the concept, but the changes they made to casters of course made that impossible.
 

The top 3 Steam Survival games are these. And the top 2 barely are.

#NameCurrent24h PeakAll-Time Peak
1.Apex Legends93,875371,130624,473
2.PUBG: BATTLEGROUNDS59,907386,3483,257,248
3.Rust58,93290,774245,243
4.Unturned47,19462,852112,703
5.Dead by Daylight39,71256,526105,093

The point is Survival Games are niche. A Survival RPG that sticks to Survival would barely survival without a RPG or a more popular RPG propping up the industry.

This is why D&D never stayed as survival nor as resource management. They aren't popular.
Is that good, bad? Does it prove your point about how "niche" survival games are?
 

Is that good, bad? Does it prove your point about how "niche" survival games are?

Valheim16,86725,514502,387
Vanhiem is here

# NameCurrent24h PeakAll-Time Peak
1.Counter-Strike: Global Offensive597,7831,251,0611,818,773
2.Baldur's Gate 3431,426506,255875,343
3.Dota 2265,229703,9401,295,114
4.Source SDK Base 2007123,908174,713213,168
5.Apex Legends96,614371,130624,473
6.Destiny 296,046107,260316,750
7.ARMORED CORE™ VI FIRES OF RUBICON™66,939116,607156,171
8.Team Fortress 266,76393,453253,997
9.PUBG: BATTLEGROUNDS61,602386,3483,257,248
10.Grand Theft Auto V60,533143,037364,548

There is a big gap, And the most popular survival games are barely resource based survival games.
 

Valheim16,86725,514502,387
Vanhiem is here

#NameCurrent24h PeakAll-Time Peak
1.Counter-Strike: Global Offensive597,7831,251,0611,818,773
2.Baldur's Gate 3431,426506,255875,343
3.Dota 2265,229703,9401,295,114
4.Source SDK Base 2007123,908174,713213,168
5.Apex Legends96,614371,130624,473
6.Destiny 296,046107,260316,750
7.ARMORED CORE™ VI FIRES OF RUBICON™66,939116,607156,171
8.Team Fortress 266,76393,453253,997
9.PUBG: BATTLEGROUNDS61,602386,3483,257,248
10.Grand Theft Auto V60,533143,037364,548

There is a big gap, And the most popular survival games are barely resource based survival games.
Then I guess you're right then. D&D should just re-invent itself again as a high-octane thrill-seeking adventure romp, since anyone who cares about anything else is too few to matter.
 

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