D&D (2024) Is Counterspell less frustrating now?

[Azzy]

I'd be down to make casting a spell provoke an opportunity attack and forcing a concentration check to complete the casting.

Back in the AD&D, many spells had casting times in segments and you would as that number to your initiative. You would start casting on your unmodified initiative and the spell would go off on the modified initiative. During that time, if the caster was struck by an attack or fails a saving throw, the spell fails.

 

[Gadget]

I'm reminded of the arguments voiced on this forum (yes, I remember back that far) about whether or not 3.0 Haste was unbalanced or not. There was quite a heated debate about, with some arguing for it being okay, and some saying it was whacked out unbalanced. The general consensus now is that 3.0 Haste was wildly unbalanced.

I've never been a fan of 5e Counterspell. I've never seen the need for it. Sure you can argue they devs were trying to emulate the classic 'wizard duel,' and that may even be the case, but I've never felt that it did; or rather that it does a very poor job of emulating the such.
Things like Mirror Image, Invisibility, Shield (for Magic Missile), Blur, Globe of Invulnerability and other defensive options all exist that can help counter various spells.

The fact is that it was far to easy to apply Counterspell at little cost is the way it seems to have been run in most of 5e. And D&D has long had a built in method of counterspelling: readying a Dispel Magic to counter your opponent's spells. AD&D had reversible spells that could be used to counter each other, which has largely gone by the wayside. But most of these did not come up very often due to the cost of having the particular spell prepared to counter an opponent, or the potential action economy waste of readying a spell to counter something that might not come. 5e got rid of most of the cost of doing so unless one had a particularly adversarial DM.

 

[CleverNickName]

When I played an Abjuration wizard, Counterspell was my favorite spell. I probably cast it more often than Shield or Magic Missile. A well-timed counterspell has turned the tide of battle, stopped summoners from calling for help, and blocked attacks that would have otherwise caused hundreds of points of damage.

As a DM, I love it as a tension-building device. I know it's not an amazing spell, and usually a waste of a spell slot compared to a Fireball or an upcast Magic Missile. But it's amazing how quickly the players all snap to attention and start working together as a team when the BBEG lich burns a 3rd level slot to counter a badly-needed Healing Word.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

UU no.

Balanced because players and monsters can use it but they used a super vanila design with only spell level mattering and the caster not being able to push a spell through unless they had counterspell themselves. The initial caster always wins a duel now because they can react to the counterspell by counterspelling it back, but WoTC could have made it more nuanced by allowing spell slots to be burned in reaction to push the spell through.

The unfun part is that you wait 15 minutes for your turn and then can get completely shut down. So it forces you to have it ready as well. Also is just a stop button for monstersand can let the tension out of a fight.

I like them, but not the UU no mechanism now which WoTC already decided ages ago is not fun.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

When I played an Abjuration wizard, Counterspell was my favorite spell. I probably cast it more often than Shield or Magic Missile. A well-timed counterspell has turned the tide of battle, stopped summoners from calling for help, and blocked attacks that would have otherwise caused hundreds of points of damage.

As a DM, I love it as a tension-building device. I know it's not an amazing spell, and usually a waste of a spell slot compared to a Fireball or an upcast Magic Missile. But it's amazing how quickly the players all snap to attention and start working together as a team when the BBEG lich burns a 3rd level slot to counter a badly-needed Healing Word.

Oh man the wizard duel we had one time to let the Bard cast Mass Healing Word lol it was wild. 3 PCs and 2 NPCs. One of the PCs (an artificer) had it in a magic item, not even on thier spell list.

The spell finally went off, and cherry on top, the swashbuckler rogue has Mage Slayer, and ganked the second enemy caster!

That was a big fight. 7 PCs, 3 of which were down.

 

[Kinematics]

The one tweak I'd probably make to it is that if you cast Counterspell at a level equal to or higher than the spell being countered, the spellcaster has disadvantage on the saving throw. That keeps upcasting meaningful, and gives at least a little something for fighting higher level spellcasters that likely have high saving throw bonuses.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

The unfun part is that you wait 15 minutes for your turn and then can get completely shut down. So it forces you to have it ready as well. Also is just a stop button for monstersand can let the tension out of a fight.

So, are you saying you don't like anything that paralyzes, stuns, silences, sleeps, or otherwise incapacitates or puts a stop to someone's plans?

 

[Myrdin Potter]

So, are you saying you don't like anything that paralyzes, stuns, silences, sleeps, or otherwise incapacitates or puts a stop to someone's plans?

Almost all the spells that impose conditions get an inital save and then a series of saves there after and other players can do something in many cases to get rid of the condition. Counterspell is about the same as the DM just telling them no, they cannot use their ability they have been waiting to use. It is emotionally more abrupt.

I am almsot always the DM, so it impacts me more than others because players counterspell big bads.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Back in the AD&D, many spells had casting times in segments and you would as that number to your initiative. You would start casting on your unmodified initiative and the spell would go off on the modified initiative. During that time, if the caster was struck by an attack or fails a saving throw, the spell fails.

(Pulls out grognard beard, duct-tape-covered DMG of prior edition and a wizard robe)

All these kids complaining about counterspell have no idea how good they have it!

In 2e casting was a "no movement" action and you didn't get Dexterity added AC for that period and the spell was always lost if anyone so much as sneezed on a caster!

3e started getting all soft and mealy mouthed. Dang hippies! Spellcasting triggered AoOs, forcing a concentration check with a DC of 10+Spell level+damage dealt. Meaning 1hp of damage dealt while casting a 9th level spell required a DC20 check. Why, a caster might actually get to complete a spell when hit! Effete nonsense!

That next edition was a lot different with powers and such but those could also generate AoOs. It's like that thing between Highlander and Highlander 3, we don't like to acknowledge it existed.

5e has no AoOs, casters keep their Dexterity to AC while casting AND can move, and even a held action to attack during spellcasting do3s nothing! Only this here Counterspell does diddly or squat and just a couple classes can get it! What's with kids these days, expecting to get spells off reliably?!?

In my day, you wanted a villain to be a solo spellcaster, you pulled out a Gish so when their spells ultimately failed they could still beat people with a giant silver sword!

(Wanders off, muttering)

 

[mellored]

That's why I allow boss monsters to cast AND attack. If it helps you give them an Action Surge/Point or two, or if you want to be mechanical base it off their CR or HD.

I prefer giving them 2 turns.
Initiative and Initiative -10.

Spreads their moves out a little.