D&D (2024) The new warlock (Packet 7)

[Charlaquin]

If by this you mean "people crunched the numbers on the new warlock and found it OP"....then yes that's exactly what happened.

And that's what always happens. People look at something and goes "wow that's cool". then the math heads crunch the numbers and go "whoa whoa, wait a second, this seems off".... and that's how we find broken things. Some things are obviously so broken when you first look at them you just know they are broken, but most things actually take a little work to find.

In this case, TM found one, and others have backed it up with their own flavors of the math (several of which you can find in this forum). So yeah....allowing the class that gets both spellcasting, heal on attack, highly fast movement, access to all weapon masteries, ability to switch damage types at will, ability to use the social stat to do full damage, and the best DPR in the game is too much.

I mean, again, it doesn’t really do anything the Warlock couldn’t already do with Eldritch Blast. So pardon me if I find it kind of laughable that only now, after a decade, are people suddenly discovering that it’s apparently so OP, especially when the complaint up until now has been the opposite.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes, it is bloody new because it was cantrip damage before and not melee weapons! They really are doing a whole heck of a lot more damage than they were before and you keep dancing around that reality and proclaiming it's "mostly" like before.

Wait, so it was ok for them to attack three times with a cantrip, but it’s not ok if it’s with a melee weapon? How is this anything but naked caster supremacy? It’s the same damage, but because you do it with a weapon instead of a spell (and despite the fact that the spell can be used at range and the weapon can’t) it’s a bridge too far??

 

[Scribe]

Except, yah know, a whole lot more damage. Who the heck was calling for bladelocks to get three melee attacks AND the best blast cantrip AND up to 9th level spells all at once?

This is the thing. 1 of these is 'whatever' 2 is 'thats pretty solid' 3? Thats not right.

If some tells me they also can get top tier mitigation as well, its pretty indefensible.

 

[Scribe]

Wait, so it was ok for them to attack three times with a cantrip, but it’s not ok if it’s with a melee weapon? How is this anything but naked caster supremacy? It’s the same damage, but because you do it with a weapon instead of a spell (and despite the fact that the spell can be used at range and the weapon can’t) it’s a bridge too far??

Yes.

 

[Mistwell]

Wait, so it was ok for them to attack three times with a cantrip, but it’s not ok if it’s with a melee weapon?

YES. Very much so. Because, yah know, IT'S A WHOLE LOT MORE DAMAGE WITH ACCESS TO SO MANY MORE ADDERS.

Come on man, this is disingenuous at this point. You know darn well they're doing a ton more damage that way. Why are you playing around pretending it's all same same?

How is this anything but naked caster supremacy?

LOLWut? It's the opposite! I am saying the CASTER which is a Warlock should NOT be outdamaging the NON-CASTERS with their own darn weapons!

It’s the same damage

It's not. Objectively provably it's not. It's way more damage than with the cantrip. You know this.

 

[Stalker0]

I mean, again, it doesn’t really do anything the Warlock couldn’t already do with Eldritch Blast. So pardon me if I find it kind of laughable that only now, after a decade, are people suddenly discovering that it’s apparently so OP, especially when the complaint up until now has been the opposite.

What you are missing is that its not a meer 1d10+5 +1d6 x3. Bladelocks now can lifesteal, do extra base damage, and then add in more damage from things like the shroud spell.

The DPR numbers have simply gone up a great deal compared to the "stock EB + hex build". Now that alone would be concerning, but note that the bladelock here received several other MAJOR improvements. They now have access to every weapon mastery in the game, and can switch with a bonus action. They are more masters with weapons than a fighter is. They now can do alternate damage with their blades, allowing them to bypass immunities and hit on vulnerabilities. certain spells like jump give them a tremendous boost in speed. All of these things add up.

This is not the same old 2014 warlock, there are several notable buffs that all come together to make an OP package.

 

[Senior_WotC_Janitor]

YES. Very much so. Because, yah know, IT'S A WHOLE LOT MORE DAMAGE WITH ACCESS TO SO MANY MORE ADDERS.

Come on man, this is disingenuous at this point. You know darn well they're doing a ton more damage that way. Why are you playing around pretending it's all same same?



LOLWut? It's the opposite! I am saying the CASTER which is a Warlock should NOT be outdamaging the NON-CASTERS with their own darn weapons!



It's not. Objectively provably it's not. It's way more damage than with the cantrip. You know this.

Do you think it's more persuasive when you write important words in caps?

 

[Mistwell]

Do you think it's more persuasive when you write important words in caps?

I DO.

 

[Kobold Stew]

This is not the same old 2014 warlock, there are several notable buffs that all come together to make an OP package.

One more: you also have access to all the pacts. Choosing Bladelock doesn't exclude you from a fancy familiar or rituals (you can have all three by level 2!).

It's a lot.

 

[Kinematics]

Mystic Arcanum is a regular class feature; you'll get a 9th level MA at 17th level. You get four cantrips (EB being one of them) and you get ten Invocations. Pact Blade, Thirsting Blade, and Lifedrinker and Agonizing Blast are four of them; you could have all of them by 5th level (with one extra to boot).

Pedantic: Lifedrinker isn't available til 9th level.

As for 3 attacks and the best blaster cantrip. Those are the same thing. Eldritch Blast scales with level by number of beams, at the same rate fighters get extra attacks. This is also not a change, Warlocks have worked this way since 2014.

The difference really starts at 9th level (where Spirit Shroud can be upcast for more damage, and Lifedrinker is available), and amplifies further at 11th. In general, the weapon option is doing about twice as much damage as the Eldritch Blast option, until Foresight comes into play, where the weapon option peaks at only 33% ahead due to EB getting more out of Foresight.

Even then, the EB peak (with Foresight and 4 attacks) is basically on par with the midline Champion (not counting 20th level), whereas the PoB build is well ahead of the Champion from level 11 onwards.