D&D (2024) Sorcerer (Playtest 7)

Yeah ngl but I feel three melee attacks is far too powerful. Especially when combined with lifedrinker and eldritch smite.
The warlock has always had three attacks at level
But honestly, this is a perfect demonstration of martial-caster disparity. Bladelock is a joke next to caster+EBlock. But if you buff bladelock up to where it's balanced with caster warlock, then all of a sudden it's way better than any martial.
Except it's not "way better than any martial" unless you use a single spell in Tasha's that is designed for the old bladelock and got massively sideways buffed. The new version without that spell is comparable to martials if you put all pact magic and most of your invocations into melee
 

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Remathilis

Legend
The warlock has always had three attacks at level

You and @Charlaquin both have used this argument and I feel it's a tad disingenuous. Their three attacks is with one cantrip, and that's how they chose to scale the damage of said cantrip. Comparing it to fire bolt, who also gets d10 extra damage at the same levels, but instead of as a separate attack, gets it as a rider to its one attack roll. It's the difference between a monks flurry of blows vs a rogue's sneak attack. In theory, that should balance as while firebolt is all or nothing (and big on a crit) EB has more chances to hit in low accuracy options. Of course, EB shines with AB adding +Cha all rolls (vs adding it to the one single fire bolt) but in theory the warlock has weaker casting to anyone else using fire bolt, so it evened out.

Bladelocks get three attacks with their one weapon. The first issue is that said weapon has more variety than a d10 cantrip. Greatsword and other high damage weapons are an option. Second, a warlock can benefit from a variety of magical weapons that do far better than a pact keeper rod can do. They can also benefit from feats that enhance weapon attacks if they qualify for them. They can benefit from spells that are cast at a higher level than other gish types like paladin or artificer. And they can get a lot better control options via mastery than repelling blast. And even if all of that is somehow nullified (such as a foe you can't reach in melee) you STILL have the best cantrip in the game in your back pocket. There is no competition between EB and blade, you can have both!

Honestly, EB needed to be knocked down a peg, not bladelock buffed to the point it's outclassing martials. EB should have worked like 3.5: one big blast per round that did sneak attack level damage at range, not multiple beams with Cha mod added. But too late now I guess.
 


Stalker0

Legend
I will agree it is rare to "fight" at those ranges. Though I will also point out that Longbow+Sharpshooter exists, as do creatures with mobility in the 120 ft range.
Bows also have too much range as well imo, hitting a moving target at 600 ft in armor is beyond ridiculous, not to mention the 1200 ft for sharpshooter.
 

You and @Charlaquin both have used this argument and I feel it's a tad disingenuous.
It absolutely isn't. The problem isn't the third attack in isolation - it's at most the combination.
Their three attacks is with one cantrip, and that's how they chose to scale the damage of said cantrip. Comparing it to fire bolt, who also gets d10 extra damage at the same levels, but instead of as a separate attack, gets it as a rider to its one attack roll. It's the difference between a monks flurry of blows vs a rogue's sneak attack. In theory, that should balance as while firebolt is all or nothing (and big on a crit) EB has more chances to hit in low accuracy options. Of course, EB shines with AB adding +Cha all rolls (vs adding it to the one single fire bolt) but in theory the warlock has weaker casting to anyone else using fire bolt, so it evened out.
Yes - and @Scribe it's not that Eldritch Blast is a notably better cantrip than Firebolt. It's the Warlock has a better class feature to use with it.
Bladelocks get three attacks with their one weapon. The first issue is that said weapon has more variety than a d10 cantrip.
The first issue is that it puts one of the squishiest classes in the game into melee. A warlock has a d8 hit die, light armour and no shields, and no worthwhile defensive invocations. And they can't cast Shield, Absorb Elements, or Mage Armour effectively. Unless the pact gives them survivability (which, to be fair, Fiend does) they're at least as squishy as your average wizard.

Meanwhile the fact a melee weapon does more damage than a ranged attack isn't an issue at all. They should.
Greatsword and other high damage weapons are an option. Second, a warlock can benefit from a variety of magical weapons that do far better than a pact keeper rod can do.
This is the only actually meaningful issue on your list.
They can also benefit from feats that enhance weapon attacks if they qualify for them.
I mean sure ... if they want to give up their spellcasting stat or if we're only counting level 12+. Any melee class should, by level 12, have a primary stat of 20 and three melee feats. But those melee feats only help out with Str/Dex. Not Cha. This is one way the melee combatants have been buffed in One D&D that the warlock hasn't.
They can benefit from spells that are cast at a higher level than other gish types like paladin or artificer.
Meanwhile they can cast far far fewer of them in any given combat. Especially when someone let the Paladin take Shield.
And they can get a lot better control options via mastery than repelling blast. And even if all of that is somehow nullified (such as a foe you can't reach in melee) you STILL have the best cantrip in the game in your back pocket.
Eldritch Blast is only an above the curve cantrip (rather than on top of the curve one) if you have spent an Invocation on it. And even then the fighter and paladin have javelins or throwing axes in their back pockets which do almost the same thing.
There is no competition between EB and blade, you can have both!
You can't use both at once. If you go for a good blade you're casting EB the way fighters are using javelins. And EB is a whole lot worse than a javelin unless you've burnt one of your precious invocations on it.
Honestly, EB needed to be knocked down a peg,
Just in case you didn't notice it EB was knocked down a peg relative to martials. The longbow, light crossbow, and javelin gained slow. The Shortbow gained vex and the heavy crossbow gained push. The trident gained Topple. This is literally the equivalent of giving every single martial weapon in the hands of a weapon wielder a free invocation.

Congratulations. You got what you say was needed. Now stop pretending it didn't happen.
not bladelock buffed to the point it's outclassing martials.
And no one thinks this is a good thing. But that doesn't mean you can rely on a sideways-buffed obscure spell from Tasha's in your continuing attempt to erase the best designed and most interesting class in 5e from existence.
 

Scribe

Legend
Yeah ngl but I feel three melee attacks is far too powerful. Especially when combined with lifedrinker and eldritch smite.

But honestly, this is a perfect demonstration of martial-caster disparity. Bladelock is a joke next to caster+EBlock. But if you buff bladelock up to where it's balanced with caster warlock, then all of a sudden it's way better than any martial.

This is exactly it.
 


Remathilis

Legend
Anyway, if you were going to give wild and dragon sorcerers bonus spells to match clockwork and aberrant, what would you give?

Draconic should have a few elemental spells, but a lot of defense/melee spells would be good. Wild needs chaos bolt and a few other random effect spells.
 


Anyway, if you were going to give wild and dragon sorcerers bonus spells to match clockwork and aberrant, what would you give?

Draconic should have a few elemental spells, but a lot of defense/melee spells would be good. Wild needs chaos bolt and a few other random effect spells.
Draconic is easy enough and as you suggest. Wild I'd rather see abolished entirely - but yes, spells like Chaos Bolt and Confusion. I'm not sure there are nearly enough of them.
 

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