D&D (2024) The sorcerer shouldn't exist

fuindordm

Adventurer
What is the sorcerer's reason for existence? Does it have enough traction to continue as a class?

When introduced in 3rd edition, its only distinction from the wizard was limited spells known and more spell slots. The class was a reaction to Vancian spell preparation, but didn't introduce any new story elements to support the mechanical change. Over time, and through into 5th edition, designers leaned into the "ancestry" theme, proposing sorcerer variants and subclasses that granted new spells or magical powers so the PC could be more like a dragon/demon/angel/aberration/etc. So the PC got some story hooks, but they always came from the customization and not the base class. In 5th edition the design also introduced sorcery points and metamagic for sorcerers--but as with the 3rd edition innovation, this feature is a meta-gaming rule innovation intended to create contrast with wizards, with minimal story or flavor to back it up.

On the other side of the fence, the wizard also got new magical powers through "specialization". Initially this provided more spell slots and a boost to learning spells in one of the "academic" schools, but wizard specializations now have much wider variety than the 8 schools, and also grant innate magical powers to the PC.

Consider a wizard and a feyblooded sorcerer, both specialized in illusions. The two PCs have different innate powers via their subclasses, but in 5th edition they both prepare spells, cast with spell slots, can modify their spells (the wizard needs more time and does it later), get some extra spell slots (arcane recovery vs sorcery points)... in short they are functionally very similar.

Frankly, my own feeling is that the sorcerer has outlived its usefulness as a base class. The wizard class could easily take on all the story-driven innate powers of sorcerers by adopting the subclasses. There could be a subclass that grants sorcery points and sorcery-style metamagic options : the "Intuitive". There could be a subclass that focuses on transforming into a dragon, and a wild magic subclass that has access to chaos bolt, arcane eruption and the other new, unique spells from the playtest.

In short, the only unique distinction remaining between the wizard and the sorcerer is the spellbook--an evolutionary oddity that now serves little purpose and has almost zero impact on the game. If you want your wizard to feel more like a sorcerer, just keep your spells somewhere else: in your familiar, in your arcane focus, as runes that appear on your skin. I don't have a problem with "sorcerers" learning new magic they encounter.
 

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Horwath

Legend
Honestly, if you look it that way, we do not need wizards, clerics, druids or any casters.

Which I would agree,

just have a d6 HD, full caster base class, call it MAGE, then with selection of subclasses you would get 2 extra cantrips and 2 extra spells known from levels 1-5. Sub classes would give you some key features that classes now have and with FEATS you could specialize your character even more to your liking.
 



Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
The sorcerer should exist.

The problem is WOTC and a lot of the community are too attached to Vancian casting and too afraid of different things.to make a sorcerer like it's lore. But they ALSO hate redundancy.

It's like the original D&DN playtest WOTtC tested a Sorcerer with its own casting system and bloodline. gimmicks.

"It's too different. We don't like it."

WOTC created a Sorcerer that is just a wizard with Metamagic.

"It's too similar. We don't need it."

Less cheese! More macaroni! Less macaroni! More cheese! More macaroni and cheese!

The issue isn't the sorcerer.
 
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CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
Yes! Of course! the answer is to kill the sorcerer and give all it's toys to the wizard and make them even more powerful and versatile!

wizard has grown too big for it's role, originally it was powerful but frail with slow progression and had a bunch of limitations on it's spellcasting, but people didn't like wizards having restrictions so every new edition they got stripped of more of their binds becoming the ultimate spellcaster.

sorcerer has it's place, sorcerer i think should be THE blaster, channeling raw magic into the world and with it's metamagics to enhance their spells, whereas wizard, i think they should be utility casters, think about it, the classic theme of the wizard is an academic holled up in a library researching spells, it makes more sense to me that someone like that wouldn't be learning ice storm or melf's minute meteors but a whole bunch of fiddly intricate spells stuff like mould stone, fly, summoning, haste/slow, forcecage, oh sure they can have magic missile and fireball but how many ways do you really need to blast your enemies when you're chilling in your tower that you've enchanded 12 ways to sunday (you think a wizard would only be able to find 8 ways there?) and they'll likely be beaten long before they actually reach you?
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
sorcerer has it's place, sorcerer i think should be THE blaster, channeling raw magic into the world and with it's metamagics to enhance their spells, whereas wizard, i think they should be utility casters, think about it, the classic theme of the wizard is an academic holled up in a library researching spells, it makes more sense to me that someone like that wouldn't be learning ice storm or melf's minute meteors but a whole bunch of fiddly intricate spells stuff like mould stone, fly, summoning, haste/slow, forcecage, oh sure they can have magic missile and fireball but how many ways do you really need to blast your enemies when you're chilling in your tower that you've enchanded 12 ways to sunday (you think a wizard would only be able to find 8 ways there?) and they'll likely be beaten long before they actually reach you?

Personally I always saw the Sorcerer as te D&D equivaalent of Marvel's mutants and DC's metahumans. Youget a suite of spells associated to your power. A Dragon sorcerer would get elemental, fear, and flight effects. A Shadow sorcerer would get necromancy and illusion spells. Sorta like domain spells. A sorcerer gets 1 domain spell list and gains new lists as they level up and evolve.

The number one thing I always though sorcerer should be able to pull magic they don't know/prepare out the Aether/Weave at a higher cost. You are a dragon sorcerer and don't have Wall of Fire prepped. Well you tap into your fire magic and cast Wall of Fire.

The issue with D&D and most TTRPGs is that once ideas lock in, it is hard for the community to input new ideas without using the old mechanics. The sorcerer is 23 years old but still using 50 year old magic that don't match the lore and 23 year old metamagic made for the wizard..
 


I do agree in a way...

The fighter and the warlock now both have a choice at first level to focus on different stats.

So at level 1, the mage could chose between learned and inherited magic.
One gets int as a stat and one gets charisma. Both can have metamagic. One is better with it.

The disadvantage of that approach is that subclasses for both archetypes are so different, that it might be difficult to combine.

Then again, I do think that warlord anf fighter should be the same class. So maybe combining wizard and sorcerer is the way to go.
 

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