D&D (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[Yaarel]

Reality is that a clumsy person would end up getting hurt if they tried to do parkour.

Anyways... new feat

Parkour Mastery
Requirements: 13 Str, 13 Dex, trained in athletic, trained in acrobatics

• +1 to Str or Dex
• You gain a climb speed equal to your speed.
• Reduce all falling damage by half.
• Expertise in athletic and acrobatics.

Strength is the opposite of clumsy.

Strength is body coordination (wrestle, throw spear, climb dangerous ledge, leap chasm, throw baseball, etcetera, etcetera).


To force a character to invest in TWO ABILITIES for one simple concept that fundamental to the genre is MAD-ness.

It is also wrong neurologically.

 

[Yaarel]

Here is something one can try at home.

Find a line on the floor or ground that is at least 30 feet long. Walk the line.

Walk the line accurately at a full pace (or faster). This is a Strength athletics check relying on gross motor skills − body coordination. It can help to avoid looking at the line itself and instead looking into the horizon in the direction of the line.

Walk the same line slowly, cautiously, (and wobbly!). Look at the line to make sure your feet are on it and maintaining balance while doing it. This is a Dexterity precision check relying on fine motor skills.

 

[Yaarel]

Strength necessarily includes balance.

 

[mellored]

Strength is the opposite of clumsy.

You can definitely be strong but still clumsy.

 

[Yaarel]

You can definitely be strong but still clumsy.

One can definitely be adroit at using a joystick and still be clumsy walking thru a doorway.


There is also a confusion between "Strength" and "carrying capacity".

Carrying capacity relates mostly to Size. Thus a hypothetical Elephant or a D&D Giant can carry and push superhuman loads − but actually have low Strength in the sense of athletic Climb and Jump. A Huge Giant can definitely be nonathletic and clumsy.

By contrast, the Strength ability comprises a diverse range of body prowess, every form of athletics.

The hypothetical Cat would have very high Strength for running, jumping, and climbing − despite the Tiny carrying capacity.

Where Weigthlifting is a separate skill that a character can "train" in, it would add a proficiency bonus to tests of lifting weight. Using reallife human world records, one can quantify how much this skill can increase the carrying capacity.


Notably, this understanding of carrying capacity emphasizes why a Halfling can have a 20 Strength Score − despite a Small carrying capacity.

And why a Goliath can have a Powerful Build despite a personal low Strength.

 

[Irlo]

I joined a parkour gym for awhile with my son when he was small. Speaking from experience, parkour requires strength, agaility, and constitution. If you try parkour in your early 40s like I did, it also requires a very low Wisdom score.

 

[Yaarel]

I joined a parkour gym for awhile with my son when he was small. Speaking from experience, parkour requires strength, agaility, and constitution. If you try parkour in your early 40s like I did, it also requires a very low Wisdom score.

Because Strength=agility, Parkour only requires Strength and Constitution.


And LOL at the "low Wisdom" requirement. I know you mean, but for any age. Some of the stunts are stupidly dangerous. The kinds that have parents freaking and cops involved.

 

[Maxperson]

Parkour requires extremely strong legs, as well as the ability to hurl ones own significantly heavy bodyweight, as well as lift oneself up from hanging from a ledge. All of parkour is pure Strength.

Parkour = Strength only

Again, that's objectively false. It is not all brute strength.

 

[Maxperson]

Because Strength=agility, Parkour only requires Strength and Constitution.

You don't get to change reality with a declaration like this.

You are objectively wrong with that statement.

 

[Yaarel]

Again, that's objectively false. It is not all brute strength.

To characterize all of the Strength ability to be as if "brute strength" is objectively false.


Give me some time to start a new thread. I want to focus on Size and Carrying Capacity. All things Strength can continue the discussion there.

[Edit: I went ahead and created the thread − here − to continue the discussion before putting together content for it.