D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Shardstone]

I have read a couple of the Elric books, which are from the 1960s onward.

If I recall correctly, he is mainly summoner, who uses specific rituals to conjure specific beings. He is actually what I think of when I think of the word "sorcerer".

He is different from the D&D Sorcerer.

I wouldnt even stat him as a D&D Warlock, because he has multiple pacts with multiple beings.

And I wouldnt stat him as a Wizard, because he is mainly performing rituals. It is the summoned creatures who are doing the magical effects.

If D&D had a Summoner class, whose pets do all the magic stuff, that seems closest to the Elric concept.

One D&D warlock in the playtest VIDEOS is mentioned as having several different patrons of a similar theme.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The innateness of both Psion and Sorcerer is similar. They share flavor. In both cases, the magic originates from ones "soul".

A foot and a nose can also seem similar too if you ignore enough details.

 

[Minigiant]

Yep. They both have very similar "gain magic from a powerful creature via pact/ancestry." I don't see a reason to have duplicate classes for demon pact/blood, dragon pact/blood etc.

Thematically Warlock Patrons are higher tier beings that a Sorcerer Origins.

But the real answer is

The Sorcerer is a traditional spellcaster.
The Warlock isn't.

It's kinda like Fighter vs Rogue even though both use blades.

 

[Yaarel]

One D&D warlock in the playtest VIDEOS is mentioned as having several different patrons of a similar theme.

That might move closer to concept.

Not from the books that I read, but analogous:

The mage never casts the Fly spell. The mage summons an Air Elemental to carry oneself.

Stuff like that.

 

[Mind of tempest]

The innateness of both Psion and Sorcerer is similar. They share flavor. In both cases, the magic originates from ones "soul".

It is ok if a Sorcerer starts off as a normal Psion learning to exert ones own magical influence.

Then getting more competent a personal sorcerous talent or lineage, opens up elemental possibilities that are normally inaccessible to "psychic" power.


Subclasses can substantially transform flavor, such as in the case of Fighter class.

blood and soul are as different as chalk and cheese.

I see potential in both to merge them would be as wrong as merging druid and cleric.

psion should go towards the interplay of enlightenment and madness of who you are.

sorcerer is who you are by the linage of blood and ancestry and thus it is about how we respond to it.

both are self but very different lenses just as psion and Wizard would be about learning and improving but clearly different.

I can see the base nich for sorcerer but have no idea how to make it which is the noob-friendly caster but still useable to those who have played long term.

A foot and a nose can also seem similar too if you ignore enough details.

a foot can be a nose but Rhinogradentia are fictional.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Thematically Warlock Patrons are higher tier beings that a Sorcerer Origins.

But the real answer is

The Sorcerer is a traditional spellcaster.
The Warlock isn't.

It's kinda like Fighter vs Rogue even though both use blades.

How are you defining traditional spellcaster here?

 

[Minigiant]

How are you defining traditional spellcaster here?

Spellslot user who focuses only and relies on spellslots for their offence, defences, and utility.

 

[Yaarel]

blood and soul are as different as chalk and cheese.

I see potential in both to merge them would be as wrong as merging druid and cleric.

psion should go towards the interplay of enlightenment and madness of who you are.

sorcerer is who you are by the linage of blood and ancestry and thus it is about how we respond to it.

both are self but very different lenses just as psion and Wizard would be about learning and improving but clearly different.

I can see the base nich for sorcerer but have no idea how to make it which is the noob-friendly caster but still useable to those who have played long term.

a foot can be a nose but Rhinogradentia are fictional.

Why is Aberrant Mind Sorcerer not "madness"? Or Divine Soul not "enlightenment"?

 

[Mind of tempest]

Why is Aberrant Mind Sorcerer not "madness"? Or Divine Soul not "enlightenment"?

to be the blood of the divine is not to know reality any more clearly than you or I do, and being messed with by aliens is traumatic not madness.
both are past things you had no choice in.

to describe madness and enlightenment as related ideas is hard as it takes more word than my head can hold and write at the same time.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Given that several people have charted out ways to turn sorcerers into psion base classes -- has anyone gone ahead and done that and built out from there? WotC has had enough fits and starts in this area in past UAs to also give a much of mechanical bits to steal from when building a homebrew class.