D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[ezo]

It never works.

O' contraire! It works very well IMO.

We already had a homebrew that does precisely this: Warlock is a sublcass of Cleric, and Sorcerer is a subclass of Wizard. Warlocks retain Invocations, and Sorcerers retain Metamagic. Also, most of the subclasses for each were moved to other classes where they also worked very well. If you want me to dig through the homebrew for those I can get them to you later today probably.

If you have any questions about how these worked in actual game play, let me know.

 

[Remathilis]

O' contraire! It works very well IMO.

We already had a homebrew that does precisely this: Warlock is a sublcass of Cleric, and Sorcerer is a subclass of Wizard. Warlocks retain Invocations, and Sorcerers retain Metamagic. Also, most of the subclasses for each were moved to other classes where they also worked very well. If you want me to dig through the homebrew for those I can get them to you later today probably.

So you gave warlock invocations to a full caster class? You're braver than I thought! You made the Twilight cleric blush in shame!

 

[Minigiant]

If you have any questions about how these worked in actual game play, let me know.

yeah

They both look broken as hell.
Like ridiculously OP.
How did your players not overshadow everyone and everything?

I know 5 people I'd NEVER EVER let use that.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I don't get the rationale for why people try to cram warlock and sorcerer together tbh. The sorcerer is a thematic full caster. The warlock is a cantrip welding rogue who occasionally pretends to be a spellcaster. The two classes play nothing alike but because they both have supernatural powers and Rizz, they get lumped together.

Warlock is effectively a full caster, it can cast up to ninth level, has fewer slots but they're more powerful and charge faster. And spellcasting is all it does. It doesn't have expertise nor can it fight (apart hexblade.)

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Oh, and one thing I really hate about sorcerer mechanics is the sorcery points. Having both spells slots and spell points which you can convert to slots and back is hella awkward and confused design. Either have just slots, and have metamagic work via upcasting, or just have spell points.

 

[MoonSong]

O' contraire! It works very well IMO.

We already had a homebrew that does precisely this: Warlock is a sublcass of Cleric, and Sorcerer is a subclass of Wizard. Warlocks retain Invocations, and Sorcerers retain Metamagic. Also, most of the subclasses for each were moved to other classes where they also worked very well. If you want me to dig through the homebrew for those I can get them to you later today probably.

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If you have any questions about how these worked in actual game play, let me know.

That's not a sorcerer. That's a wizard wielding sorcerer's toys.

 

[FrogReaver]

Class reductionism is the siren song of 21st century D&D. It's the sweet temptation of "less is more," but it almost always actually cashes out as "less is less."

It works great for some other systems though. It typically requires rather broad general purpose class abilities that then allow subsequent choices to specialize down further. That’s not a d&d class which starts as a super specialized mass of level gated abilities and gives you a tiny bit of specialization within.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I was just sitting here thinking, I would love to have a character who started as a Celestial Warlock, and eventually started taking levels of Cleric. That has a great thematic through line and a great character arc...

But it would be an absolute disaster mechanically, and do essentially nothing but weaken the character. Which is a shame. There are fun stories out there, that because of the mechanics, we can't have. But I also don't think combining them helps at all, since you would just be removing those stories from the other end.

while i'm not personally a fan of multiclassing and would rather implement thematic versatility through subclasses, feats and prestige classes(even if the latter isn't in 5e), i think it would be better for multiclassing if class features were designed on character level progression, like how cantrips work, so even if you only took a 1 level dip in ranger, your deft explorer and favoured foe features will continue to scale based on your character level, or if you dip one level in wizard for your 5th level, you'll have the 3 cantrips and 2 1st level spells known of a level 1 wizard but you'll have the 4 1st level slots of a 5th level wizard.

 

[Vaalingrade]

yeah

They both look broken as hell.
Like ridiculously OP.
How did your players not overshadow everyone and everything?

I mean the wizard's already there so that ship? Sailed.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I was just sitting here thinking, I would love to have a character who started as a Celestial Warlock, and eventually started taking levels of Cleric. That has a great thematic through line and a great character arc...

But it would be an absolute disaster mechanically, and do essentially nothing but weaken the character. Which is a shame. There are fun stories out there, that because of the mechanics, we can't have. But I also don't think combining them helps at all, since you would just be removing those stories from the other end.

This is the sort of cool thematic thing I'd like multiclassing to be used for, but unfortunately it is totally random for which concepts it works for, and most multiclassing is just about building some broken combo.