D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer
- Thread starter cbwjm
- Start date
Frozen_Heart
Hero
I'm not saying that all their subclasses are perfectly identical. I'm saying that almost all of their subclasses could easily work for either class thematically.
- Aberrant Mind and Great Old One are both influence from a far realm entity.
- A warlock could theoretically make a pact with an entity from Mechanus, like how clockwork soul draws power from there.
- Divine soul and celestial both draw power from links to celestials such as angels.
- A warlock could theoretically make a pact with an ancient dragon or greatwyrm for power. In fact that's one of the most requested 5e subclasses.
- Hexblade and shadow sorcery both draw power from shadowfell.
- Storm sorcery draws its power from elemental air. But a warlock could potentially make a pact with an entity such as yan-c-bin.
- Wild magic draws its power from chaos, but nothing stopping a warlock making a pact with creatures from the chaotic outer planes.
- Archfey is a warlock patron, but you could easily have a sorcerer with a fey bloodline.
- Fathomless is a pact with an entity from the depths or elemental water. But nothing stopping that being a bloodline, just like how storm sorcery is a bloodline from elemental air.
- The fiend is already (extremely badly) represented with divine soul as a bloodline, but nothing preventing a sorcerer having a fiendish bloodline they draw power from.
- Lunar sorcery for sorcerer could also be a warlock pact, with creatures with as lunar dragons.
- Genies are already stated to mix with mortals, and so a genie bloodline for sorcerers would be insanely easy to do.
- Undead or undying patron can work as a sorcerer power source, as a person changed by an encounter with a vampire, lich, or dark ritual could find themselves able to tap into that power.
Almost anything which is a sorcerer bloodline can be a warlock pact, and almost anything which is a warlock pact can be a sorcerer bloodline purely from a lore perspective. I didn't state that those equivalent subclasses are in game right at this moment.
There are currently 8 sorcerer subclasses and 9 warlock subclasses. If you combine them, you are asking 1 class to cover 17 subclasses with the 8 they'd have.
Even if 5 overlapped, you'd need 12 subclasses the Sorclocks wouldn't have. And you'd lose somethings the combination. The Dragonic Bloodline would lose its dragon stuff and the Genie Pact would lose its genie stuff when combined into a generic Elemental subclass
Combining classes is almost always a net loss.
Even if 5 overlapped, you'd need 12 subclasses the Sorclocks wouldn't have. And you'd lose somethings the combination. The Dragonic Bloodline would lose its dragon stuff and the Genie Pact would lose its genie stuff when combined into a generic Elemental subclass
Combining classes is almost always a net loss.
Crimson Longinus
Legend
No.
Previously the writers had to write 17 subclasses , not they can cover the same ground with twelve, leaving them time, if they're so inclined, to cover five more concepts with the same amount of work. Not to mention the saved time for not having to write the additional bas class chassis.
No. This combined class doesn't need to follow the current warlock subclass structure exactly; aftercall, we are intentionally broadening things so that we can represent more concepts. Daron pact would still have its dragons stuff, though some of it might be take a form of dragon-themed invocations.
It's not. Spreading things too thin makes both thematics and rules strained, and we end up with things with confused fluff like current warlock and sorcerer and classes whose mechanics are lacklustre as the design space was too crowded like the current sorcerer, or too inflexible like the current warlock.
Frozen_Heart
Hero
I'd argue that it would allow more options rather than less, as there wouldn't need to be 'duplicates' between them.
1 - Far Realm (aberrant/old one)
2 - Lawful Plane (clockwork)
3 - Upper Plane (divine/celestial)
4 - Draconic
5 - Lunar
6 - Shadowfell (shadow/hexblade)
7 - Plane of Air (storm)
8 - Chaotic Plane (wild)
9 - Feywild (archfey)
10 - Plane of Water (fathomless)
11 - Lower Plane (fiend)
12 - Genie
13 - Undead/Undying
That's 13 subclasses thematically, which is less than cleric with 14.
I don't believe there is enough overall overlap to combine sorcerer and warlock and represent their combined subclasses in 9 subclasses. Or even the 13 subclasses the wizard got that the sorlock wouldn't.
And that's just vague theme. That's before replicating both playstyles or creature type bits.
And don't even talk about a generic Mage class.
Frozen_Heart
Hero
I'm almost always on the 'more classes' side. For example I'd love to see the warlord and swordmage get added, as well as a dedicated 'pet class'.
But combining wizard and sorcerer, while having warlock eat the remaining sorcerer subclasses is my single exception to this.
But combining wizard and sorcerer, while having warlock eat the remaining sorcerer subclasses is my single exception to this.
Frozen_Heart
Hero
We have that, it's called the wizard.
I'm basically just suggesting making its subclasses into things which aren't just a list of spell schools, and giving it back metamagic like it had before. People are always complaining that the wizard is incredibly boring and barebones beyond just having lots of spells.
Shadow/Hexblade is a stretch. But we all know with the care WOTC made with sorcerer and warlock, the Sorclocks is never getting 13 subclasses.
The cleric started with over 5. The Sorcerer got 2. The Warlock just got the 3 ported from 4e.
You'd need a whole new book schedule for it to work. More books per year.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Then you are asking others to give up things they genuinely care about because of something that merely mildly annoys you.
You're not going to succeed with this kind of argument. You have to actually show how others would either lose very little by their own estimation, or actually gain, through a change like this.
