D&D (2024) Check Out The New Dungeon Master's Guide's Greyhawk Map

Greyhawk is the 'sample setting' provided in the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide, and it is illustrated with a massive hex map by the awesome Mike Schley.

 

[Hussar]

Give me Middle Earth or the Age of Conan! Though, Greyhawk is cool. At least with Greyhawk you don't have to worry about the DM doing something Non-Middle Earthish or something stupid with the hyborian age, like puting starships in those worlds!

Or gargoyles with removable wings.

 

[Shiroiken]

The Flannaes is like the size of Africa, and was originally detailed in 32 pages. Real easy to just say "Dragonvorn, Tieflings and Goliaths have always been there, and Orcs are people". So easy, I doubt they will say it out loud!

It's actually easy to include the odd races as pre-existing. There's just not enough of them to have a significant impact on society. Similar to Halflings and Gnomes, they don't have their own nation anywhere, instead living either in small communities or among humans. I've been doing this for a decade.

Orcs being "just people" shouldn't fly though. Orcs have established lore in Greyhawk that puts them at odds with the good nations. Like drow in Forgotten Realms, you can have individuals that are accepted by the majority of society, but they're still going to get the side-eye from a lot of people (just like Half Orcs in AD&D). My solution, based on the presumed loss of the half races, is that all PC orcs in my campaign are going to be half orcs instead.

 

[Parmandur]

Orcs have established lore in Greyhawk that puts them at odds with the good nations.

Well, there are plenty of examples throughout history of people being ar odds with each, with both sides still being people who had complex interaction over time. The same is true of the lore for the Sueloise North men, almost as much as for Orcs.

Would it make sense for people in the Pale to look askance at an Orc wearing armor and a symbol of Gruunsh on their shield walking into town? Yeah, sure, but they would also look askance at an albino Fruzzti Barbarian with a giant horned helmet, braided bear and extensive tatoos. And people in Greyhawk or the cities of the Wild Coast might just not look twice at anything.

It will be interesting to read what descriptions or info they give various nations here: the Bone March and Pomarj might get a very different perspective.

 

[orial]

And this may be a novice question, but does anyone know if Thunder Rift and Orlane from Against the Cult of the Reptile God are on this map? If so, what region? Thanks in advance to those more knowledgeable.

Thunder rift is part if the Mystara campaign setting, located somewhere in Karameikos. See the ‘escape from thunder rift’ adventure.

 

[Yaarel]

I hope the Norsesque areas are more sensitive to reallife Scandinavian perspectives, rather than British and German stereotypes about Vikings. I am glad for the elimination of the term "Barbarians". The societies there need to be more sophisticated, more magical, and higher Intelligence. There should be no Clerics, not indigenous ones anyway. Paladins can make sense, since oaths are a big deal, and the warrior magic values "honorable", and tends to correlate healing and protection. Bards (without musical instruments) are fantastic. Wizard spellbooks are rare. Druids are great for the nature beings.


I mixed feelings about the absence of Blackmoor. I am happy that there are no longer any "ruins of Blackboor". But I did like Blackmoor by Arneson being present on Oerth. Blackmoor is a small coastal town, and wouldnt necessarily be on a map at this scale. Placing it somewhere in Arn is no problem. I hope Blackmoor is alive and well.


Also the elimination of the Scarlet Brotherhood is important. I dont want my games to feature that kind of hategroup.


I wonder if there can be a world map for all of Oerth that would satisfy most fans.

 

[Saracenus]

I am going to remind everyone that WotC has stated that the lore for any setting in 5e is whatever they publish for that edition. However... Previous published materials can and will be used as inspiration but they are not bound by them.

Hence Dragonborn, Tieflings, Asimar, Goliaths, and Orcs (all of which are in the 2024 PHB) will exist in products officially published by WotC. We already know that Tieflings exist because they are present in Ghosts of Saltmarsh which is set in the World of Greyhawk. I will also note I have a copy of the officially published 4e Village of Hommlet module and guess what, there was a Dragonborn in it, right in the village staying at the Inn of the Welcome Wench.

Your version of the World of Greyhawk can be whatever you want it to be. If you want to enforce the humancentric world that Gygax created in the '81 Folio and expanded upon in the '83 Box Set (which basically added material that was originally published in Dragon Magazine), by all means... your game, your Greyhawk.

As a reformed Canonista I will say that I believe that putting the previous published Greyhawk lore ahead of what you and your players create at the table is a straight jacket. Greyhawk was always meant to be what you made of it:

From page 12 form the Glossography World of Greyhawk boxed set:

Anything that came before and even the new stuff we are getting with the DMG, well it like Captain Barbosa says...

The new 2024 DMG is going to give us an updated (to modern sensibilities) version of 576 CY World of Greyhawk. They are going to give everyone a taste along with advice on how to make it their own and then WotC is going to turn everyone loose to make Greyahwk whatever they want it to be.

If that is not to your taste there are plenty of PDFs/Print On Demand versions of the old material if you don't already own them.

 

[Clint_L]

Greyhawk was always meant to be what you made of it...

This. One of the reasons I loved Greyhawk so much was that it invited us to make it our own. Gygax wanted players to be making their own adventures, and even if you were using Greyhawk, you were never supposed to slavishly follow his lore. His campaign was his campaign, and yours, yours.

Obviously, the 5e Greyhawk that is being released as part of the 2024 Core is going to synergize with the current game. That doesn't invalidate Gygax's campaign or the many versions of Greyhawk that have come since. It's just one more iteration, and I think it is the perfect choice for the 50th anniversary setting.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Also the elimination of the Scarlet Brotherhood is important. I dont want my games to feature that kind of hategroup.

Scarlet Brotherhood has not been eliminated, Shar is what they named that peninsula they use as their home.
They are notable villains for the setting it wouldn’t make sense to remove them from the official lore.

 

[Shiroiken]

Well, there are plenty of examples throughout history of people being ar odds with each, with both sides still being people who had complex interaction over time. The same is true of the lore for the Sueloise North men, almost as much as for Orcs.

Would it make sense for people in the Pale to look askance at an Orc wearing armor and a symbol of Gruunsh on their shield walking into town? Yeah, sure, but they would also look askance at an albino Fruzzti Barbarian with a giant horned helmet, braided bear and extensive tatoos. And people in Greyhawk or the cities of the Wild Coast might just not look twice at anything.

Agreed. The baklunish are also looked upon with suspicion in a lot of places as well, so it's not just orcs. My issue is below.

It will be interesting to read what descriptions or info they give various nations here: the Bone March and Pomarj might get a very different perspective.

I really don't want a Kingdom of Many Arrows in Greyhawk. Even if you sympathize with the humanoids of the Pomarj because they were displaced from the Lortmil Mountains, they still invaded Ulek to carve out the Pomarj.

 

[Parmandur]

Agreed. The baklunish are also looked upon with suspicion in a lot of places as well, so it's not just orcs. My issue is below.

I really don't want a Kingdom of Many Arrows in Greyhawk. Even if you sympathize with the humanoids of the Pomarj because they were displaced from the Lortmil Mountains, they still invaded Ulek to carve out the Pomarj.

Which human groups do, too.

Look, I don't expect the tribes ruling the Pomarj to be made the good guys, but a little complexity will make the region more playable. Like maybe the local Orc Warlord is a Chaotic Neutral thug, but he may still have work for intrepid Advebturers.