D&D General Build the "Definitive Pantheon"

[doctorbadwolf]

If you look up Thor on Wikipedia, you will also see listed that he is a god of strength, and Kord is pretty much just off-brand Thor.

Kord is vastly less interesting than an off brand Thor, but regardless the point is that “Strength” is not a domain that needs to be taken seriously as a “you can’t be this and that it’s too much.” There doesn’t even need to be a strength domain.

Heracles is a god of strength. Kratos, the actual one in Greek mythology, is a deified personification of strength. As weird as it may seem, it's perfectly normal to have gods of strength. Not not every warrior deity is a god of strength. For example, the Norse god Tyr is a warrior god, but he is generally not considered a god of strength. Some deities are strong and may represent physical valor, but aren't generally considered gods of strength, like Ares.

You are skipping right past the point without even glancing at it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Gods for gaming with mysteries, oddities, and dualities work best when they are explored and offer interesting sides.

Like I said. Dawn War was great but it offered only every limited divine options for villainy. 4e was very very stereotypical.

Divine options for villainy aren’t needed. At all. That’s what fiends and primordials and such are for.

 

[Minigiant]

Divine options for villainy aren’t needed. At all. That’s what fiends and primordials and such are for.

Not every setting has primordials.

Dawn War is the best Pantheon.
It is not the Definitive Pantheon.

 

[Aldarc]

Kord is vastly less interesting than an off brand Thor,

Thor has the benefit of actual mythologies and sagas to make him interesting, but I think that Kord suffices for D&D.

but regardless the point is that “Strength” is not a domain that needs to be taken seriously as a “you can’t be this and that it’s too much.” There doesn’t even need to be a strength domain.

If "strength" existed as a domain, it would probably be relegated to an Exarch, as per 4e, a lesser god who exemplified it. As a major god for a pantheon? I agree that there is no reason to have a major god who was just a god of strength or even that strength itself is that noteworthy. This is where I typically see Kord more as a god of athleticism than strength.

You are skipping right past the point without even glancing at it.

And you are being unnecessarily adversarial, if not condescending. Would you mind toning it done please? If I skipped past the point or was mistaken in your point, then don't just tell me that I missed it, please clarify your position first before resorting to snapping off at me. Please.

Divine options for villainy aren’t needed. At all. That’s what fiends and primordials and such are for.

Agreed again.

 

[Minigiant]

My issue with Kord is he is the god of
Honorable Orderly Battle
and
Chaotic Destructive Storm

He's painted in Thor or Zeus paint but since there a limited gods, he's also has to be CRAZY MAD STORM ANGRY GOD at the same time.

That's why many religions have many sky and sea deities.

 

[Aldarc]

My issue with Kord is he is the god of
Honorable Orderly Battle
and
Chaotic Destructive Storm

I don't see the issue, and you seem to take it for granted that there is an issue here at all. In Magic the Gathering terms, Kord is Boros ("White/Red").

Here is the description from 4e PHB 1:

Kord is the storm god and the lord of battle. He revels in strength, battlefield prowess, andthunder. Fighters and athletes revere him. He is a mercurial god, unbridled and wild, who summons storms over land and sea; those who hope for better weather appease him with prayers and spirited toasts. He gives few commands:
✦ Be strong, but do not use your strength for wanton destruction.
✦ Be brave and scorn cowardice in any form.
✦ Prove your might in battle to win glory and renown.

Yes he is a god of storms over land and sea, but he's not exactly "chaotic destructive destruction" as you make him out to be.

He's painted in Thor or Zeus paint but since there a limited gods, he's also has to be CRAZY MAD STORM ANGRY GOD at the same time.

So like Thor and Zeus? Or Baal Hadad? Or Horus? Or Taranis? Or Perun? Or Indra? Kord is an incredibly run-of-the-mill mythological storm god who is far from being some sort of mythological aberration as you are trying to make him out to be. By mythological standards, Kord is remarkably tame.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't see the issue, and you seem to take it for granted that there is an issue here at all. In Magic the Gathering terms, Kord is Boros ("White/Red").

Here is the description from 4e PHB 1:

Yes he is a god of storms over land and sea, but he's not exactly "chaotic destructive destruction" as you make him out to be.


So like Thor and Zeus? Or Baal Hadad? Or Horus? Or Taranis? Or Perun? Or Indra? Kord is an incredibly run-of-the-mill mythological storm god who is far from being some sort of mythological aberration as you are trying to make him out to be. By mythological standards, Kord is remarkably tame.

That's my point


Kord is either a lame battle god, a lame storm god, or split personality because his 2 main portfolios conflict.

 

[Aldarc]

That's my point

Kord is either a lame battle god, a lame storm god, or split personality because his 2 main portfolios conflict.

No, Minigiant, that's not my point. I don't agree that Kord has a split personality nor do I think that his two main portfolios conflict.

 

[jmartkdr2]

...

For a setting with active powers of all alignments in active conflict, it's no neat.

If that's what you want to lean on - I would suggest not using gods per se. Use the Greater Outsiders of each outer plane to fill in that role fictionally, and let clerics just pick whatever domain makes sense for their character. You might need to do a deep dive to find the names, (the 3e Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Dees would be my primary reference) but, for a couple examples:

Lawful Good characters are allied with angels, who all serve the Celestial Hepdomad - seven archangels (advanced solars) who each rule a layer of Mt. Celesita and have their own personalities.

Neutral Good characters would work for the highest Guardinials. Chaotic Good Characters are allied with Eladrin (but you can make Corellon a major Eladrin if you want)

Lawful Evil characters work with/for devils - probably not worship as such but that's who they get their powers from. Chaotic Evil characters draw power from / are enslaved by Demon Lords.

Etc.

 

[Xeviat]

I really like the 4E pantheon as well and thought they did a really nice job with it. However, I did think there were some domains missing and some of the traditional demihuman deities that deserved to be included in the pantheon alongside the others that were. So when I prepped a new Nerath campaign I did some edits to it (added some, removed some, changed some around) and expanded the pantheon out to a full 18 gods (2 per alignment) with each of them a patron of a different species in the campaign setting.

BAHAMUT [Male, Lawful Good]: God of protection, courage and honor. Patron of metallic dragonborn.
MORADIN [Male, Lawful Good]: God of craft, earth, and community. Patron of dwarves.
PELOR [Male, Neutral Good]: God of the sun, love, time, and summer. Patron of aasimar.
YONDALLA [Female, Neutral Good]: Goddess of family, prosperity, and luck. Patron of halflings.
CORELLON [Pangender, Chaotic Good]: Deity of magic, art, beauty, and spring. Patron of high elves.
GARL [Male, Chaotic Good]: God of humor, revelry, and invention. Patron of gnomes.

ERATHIS [Female, Lawful Neutral]: Goddess of civilization, law, and commerce. Patron of humans.
IOUN [Female, Lawful Neutral]: Goddess of knowledge, study, and prophecy. Patron of warforged.
LLORA [Female, True Neutral]: Goddess of the wilderness and the sea. Patron of shifters.
RAVEN QUEEN [Female, True Neutral]: Goddess of death, fate, humility, and winter. Patron of shadar-kai.
SEHANINE [Female, Chaotic Neutral]: Goddess of the moon, the hunt, illusions and autumn. Patron of wood elves.
KORD [Male, Chaotic Neutral]: God of storms, strength, and competition. Patron of goliaths.

ASMODEUS [Male, Lawful Evil]: Archdevil god of pride, tyranny, and leadership. Patron of tieflings.
MAGLUBIYET [Male, Lawful Evil]: God of ambition, conquest, and strategy. Patron of goblinoids.
LOLTH [Female, Neutral Evil]: Goddess of lies, corruption and cunning. Patron of drow elves.
TIAMAT [Female, Neutral Evil]: Goddess of wealth, greed, and envy. Patron of chromatic dragonborn and kobolds.
GRUUMSH [Male, Chaotic Evil]: God of fury, slaughter, and instinct. Patron of orcs.
ZEHIR [Genderless, Chaotic Evil]: Deity of pestilence, murder, and endurance. Patron of yuan-ti.

I love this. I'll use it for my next game!