D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Cleric"

[UngeheuerLich]

For me, it just feels so uninspiring and milquetoast. It's a 10th level ability called "Divine Intervention" and it now just amounts to a floating spell slot for that can be cast for a single level 1 to 5 spell. Umm... okay? I think that I would want something a little more inspiring than a glorified extra spell slot.

The important part is that it is a free spell you don't have to have prepared. That is way more than a glorified extra slot. In AD&D when you used the spell point variant, you could prepare a free choosable spell for twice the normal point cost. Which was very powerful.

 

[Maxperson]

let's look at what this ability is meant to do.
Have Raise dead always on stand-by.

And that is kind of divine intervention, someone dies and you call your deity to intercede and bring back life into the slain one.

or greater restoration to help that dumb rogue that cant take his greedy hands of every cursed item you find.

Under that definition, every clerical spell is divine intervention, which in a way they are. The ability is little more than a spell that is weaker than the cleric can cast himself.

Actual divine intervention should be stronger and less clearly defined. A cleric of the god of forests using divine intervention when facing a group that has deforested a massive area should be able to have the entire forest grow back in a matter of minutes.

Limiting it to spells and 5th level spells at that, does the ability a huge disservice.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think anyone is disputing that the new version isn't, overall, a power upgrade on account of being reliable even if the ceiling on the ability is lowered. But by making it reliable, it becomes part of the kit. It is no longer miraculous. No-one is going to tell stories about that time Brianna the Barbarian got herself killed in battle but Cecil the Cleric used Divine Intervention for a raise dead spell to bring her back without spending diamonds. I mean, of course he did.

But if a party member fell in battle in 2014 and the cleric called for a successful divine intervention to bring them back mid-battle... I, for one, would bring them back with full hit points and some form of deity-appropriate buff for the duration of the combat. Since the ability has such a low chance of success, it should pack a mighty punch when it does work.

Or come back with a host of deity related creatures.

 

[Maxperson]

Any DM will make it seem more than a glorified spell slot too. D&D is a narrative game where players and DM are crafting a story. Every time divine intervention is used, as a DM, I'd see that as a juicy steak to bite into and create a narrative supporting why its happening.

And this is exactly why I will not be using the new version. The old version is far better when it comes to accomplishing a great narrative to support the situation.

 

[mellored]

IBut if a party member fell in battle in 2014 and the cleric called for a successful divine intervention to bring them back mid-battle... I, for one, would bring them back with full hit points and some form of deity-appropriate buff for the duration of the combat. Since the ability has such a low chance of success, it should pack a mighty punch when it does work.

And what is stopping you from still doing that?

 

[Maxperson]

The important part is that it is a free spell you don't have to have prepared. That is way more than a glorified extra slot. In AD&D when you used the spell point variant, you could prepare a free choosable spell for twice the normal point cost. Which was very powerful.

A glorified extra spell slot is exactly what it is. I mean, I could go to a cleric in my game and say that he has an extra 5th level spell slot that he doesn't have to have prepared and uses no components, and that's all it would be. A glorified spell slot. Renaming that gift divine intervention doesn't stop it from being a glorified extra spell slot.

 

[Arilyn]

Any DM will make it seem more than a glorified spell slot too. D&D is a narrative game where players and DM are crafting a story. Every time divine intervention is used, as a DM, I'd see that as a juicy steak to bite into and create a narrative supporting why its happening.

It works once per long rest. The juicy narrative bits will start feeling mundane. Powerful, yes, but not miraculous. As @Aldarc says, "glorified spell slot."

And since it's 100% reliable now, maybe too potent? Do we want a back up Raise Dead ready to go?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A glorified extra spell slot is exactly what it is. I mean, I could go to a cleric in my game and say that he has an extra 5th level spell slot that he doesn't have to have prepared and uses no components, and that's all it would be. An glorified spell slot. Renaming that gift divine intervention doesn't stop it from being a glorified extra spell slot.

Glorified sounds like it is just better in name.
Maybe I interpreted it wrong.

I think it is yes a very powerful ability to invoke the power of your god (a. k. a. cast a spell) when you need it.

Did you have that spell prepared or enough diamond dust? Nope. Your god does not say: "bad luck". They say: "ok. This one time (today) I can help you."

And later, the god grants a wish. That seems like what a good does when they intervene.

Maybe a little annotation for the low level divine intervention could read: at your DM's discretion, you can ask for a different effect than chosing a spell.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It works once per long rest. The juicy narrative bits will start feeling mundane. Powerful, yes, but not miraculous. As @Aldarc says, "glorified spell slot."

And since it's 100% reliable now, maybe too potent? Do we want a back up Raise Dead ready to go?

The old ability was just bad. 10 to 19% chance is not intervention, it is usually: "nope".

If it was 3% chance per level or so, ok. But 1% always felt like an insult.

 

[Micah Sweet]

yes and are similar to issues with psionics a lack of agreement as to what they actually want except not this.

True. I can respect WotC for at least making a stand this time instead of giving up like they did with psionics.