D&D General On Early D&D and Problematic Faves: How to Grapple with the Sins of the Past

[Cadence]

Ok. That's your and my opinion being different.

About saying human men are wiser and human women are more charismatic and intelligent on average?

Or about having things like the distribution of physical differences between the sexes being something you want in a game?

 

[John R Davis]

I thought everyone would be happy with 3 free +1s.

Ok I'll bow out of here and take comments forward for after summer break. At my college I help with the LGBT+ DND club that has 50+ members aged 16-18. As they are the next gen of quite excellent gamers I'll put it to them, and go with their thoughts
Ta

 

[jmartkdr2]

It's interesting because in in my experience, sex has only entered the plot (for jokes, action, or love) when the table knows each other well. I would find it odd a table that doesn't know each other well does this. But for friends that have played for a year or two or three or twenty, it seems like a viable plot device. Explicitness doesn't need to be there, and for the tables I DM or play, never has. But the action of it does.
It's similar to having a spouse, a child, or family in game. These are strong plot devices.

Weirdly enough, I have an opposite experience: strangers I met online are more likely to go there than people I know well. The mask of anonymity makes it easier to stay in the fictional space and romance the character rather than the player (is my hypothesis)

 

[John R Davis]

Ah bugger
Last point.
Sorry
What if I had quoted say role master stats ( empathy, memory , intuition, etc?). Would it still be sexist to give women +5 empathy and +5 memory????
Done now.
Apologies.

 

[p_johnston]

Wow i need to stop writing pre coffee. My brain miss files to many things otherwise. H.P. Lovecraft not H.G.Wells.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I thought everyone would be happy with 3 free +1s.

Ok I'll bow out of here and take comments forward for after summer break. At my college I help with the LGBT+ DND club that has 50+ members aged 16-18. As they are the next gen of quite excellent gamers I'll put it to them, and go with their thoughts
Ta

John,

Thank you for helping share your enthusiasm with the next generation of gamers! I am curious to find out what their thoughts on the issue are.

If it makes you feel better, I understand where you are coming from, in terms of a simulationist perspective. That said, I think that we have to acknowledge that this is a game, with game concepts like "hit points" and "levels." As such, I would put forth the assertion that we should avoid having gendered limits, or bonuses, in the game. We aren't simulating who is the most powerful weightlifter in the real world; instead, we are enabling people to enjoy themselves. And for that reason, I would think that we should strive to let all people enjoy their heroic images equally.

 

[O-Castitatis-Lilium]

Gendered ability score modifiers are probably the least sexist of Gygax's sexism in design (not to say it isn't sexist). There are certain typical differences between men and women in physical strength, among other things, and trying to simulate that in and of itself isn't sexist. But it is flawed, because adventurer's do not represent "typical" people in any sense.

Surprisingly, I did find it interesting playing with the gendered stats cap. My dad absolutely hated it and was completely baffled by why his daughter would ever want to play with it. I only ever did it once, just to see what it was like. I found work-arounds for it and it made RP and storytelling just a little more interesting. Not something I would do again, but it was interesting to see what RP and story telling could come from it. After though my dad told me I wasn't allowed to play with it lol, it made him really uncomfortable to have to tell his daughter that her character couldn't do something because she was a girl. I was...oh wow I think I was only about 8 at the time and I was dead set on wanting to play with it. I think what I have found with the -X to (insert stat) and +X to (insert stat) based on race, backgrounds, and what not leads to some interesting RP and storytelling. Same with rolled stats too, you can really get creative with the low stats and even the high stats.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

John,

Thank you for helping share your enthusiasm with the next generation of gamers! I am curious to find out what their thoughts on the issue are.

If it makes you feel better, I understand where you are coming from, in terms of a simulationist perspective. That said, I think that we have to acknowledge that this is a game, with game concepts like "hit points" and "levels." As such, I would put forth the assertion that we should avoid having gendered limits, or bonuses, in the game. We aren't simulating who is the most powerful weightlifter in the real world; instead, we are enabling people to enjoy themselves. And for that reason, I would think that we should strive to let all people enjoy their heroic images equally.

This is better phrased than I would have managed it but essentially I agree. I am also old but the way I look at it, If D&D enables me to play the glib and witty faceman (something I cannot do in real life), why should it stop a woman from being the superstrong and tough barbarian axe woman?

 

[JEB]

Sounds right, but I'd probably have to go through a stack of Strategic Review and Dragon Magazines to see if it had a precursor.

Len Lakofka's infamous article "Notes on Women & Magic" from Dragon #3 is the oldest such thing in the game I'm aware of.

 

[billd91]

Maybe it could different for different species ( say gnolls, dwarves).

Would that all be truly awful and get the game cancelled???

I think there can be room for more extensive differences between sexes for sufficiently alien/different species if a special point is made of it and everyone interested in playing that species knows the full implications of them. Example: Aslan in Traveller.

But for general human/near human species, mechanical difference between sexes probably does more harm than it’s worth.