D&D (2024) Which subclasses “should” have been in 2024

[steeldragons]

Proficiency in con(for those poisons, etc.) and dex(for avoiding traps) saves?

Sure. In a 5e saves prof set-up, that would make sense.

 

[Marandahir]

I agree. If they are going to a Dancer, I'd rather see it either as its own class (as done by Taron Pounds) or a non-spellcasting rogue subclass.

I feel like there's room for Rogue and Monk and Barbarian Dancer subclasses. It feels like the sort of concept like Arcane Gish, where multiple classes have a take on the idea.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Having played a Swords bard up to 10th level, I think you HIGHLY over-inflate their capacities. My sword bard was solid, but the battlemaster was running rings around me.

Battlemaster is one subclass that is stronger than others, same with Eldritch Knight. Do you think a Champion would run circles around your Swords Bard too? Especially if at 10th level you suddenly got all Wizard spellist to pick from?

 

[Remathilis]

Battlemaster is one subclass that is stronger than others, same with Eldritch Knight. Do you think a Champion would run circles around your Swords Bard too? Especially if at 10th level you suddenly got all Wizard spellist to pick from?

Champion is one of the weakest subs. Sidekicks can run circles around them.

And I did, at 10th level, get magic secrets from any class. I picked haste and steel wind strike. I assure you, it wasn't the OP boost you think it was. It kept me competitive, but I certainly wasn't putting the others* to shame.

* This was in Tomb of Annihilation. We had a ancestors barbarian, battlemaster, scout rogue, transmuter, and grave cleric in addition to my sword bard. I was not showing any one up in combat but the grave cleric (when there was no undead.)

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Champion is one of the weakest subs. Sidekicks can run circles around them.

And I did, at 10th level, get magic secrets from any class. I picked haste and steel wind strike. I assure you, it wasn't the OP boost you think it was. It kept me competitive, but I certainly wasn't putting the others* to shame.

* This was in Tomb of Annihilation. We had a ancestors barbarian, battlemaster, scout rogue, transmuter, and grave cleric in addition to my sword bard. I was not showing any one up in combat but the grave cleric (when there was no undead.)

And yet something tells me you're selling yourself short. Even if you didn't do most damage, I feel you had much greater utility than either Battlemaster or Barbarian on top of being decent in combat.

 

[Remathilis]

And yet something tells me you're selling yourself short. Even if you didn't do most damage, I feel you had much greater utility than either Battlemaster or Barbarian on top of being decent in combat.

But we weren't talking utility. You're point was a dance bard out monks a monk and a sword bard out fighters a fighter, which wasn't true. Yes, I had some great skills from expertise and some decent spells, compared to the BM or bbn, I was fragile in melee, compared to the scout I wasn't dropping major DPS mobile strikes, and compared to the wizard I was a secondary buffer at best. I was not weak, but I wasn't eating anyone's lunch. I fully suspect that the dance bard will fall in the same category; decent but not overwhelming.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

But we weren't talking utility. You're point was a dance bard out monks a monk and a sword bard out fighters a fighter, which wasn't true. Yes, I had some great skills from expertise and some decent spells, compared to the BM or bbn, I was fragile in melee, compared to the scout I wasn't dropping major DPS mobile strikes, and compared to the wizard I was a secondary buffer at best. I was not weak, but I wasn't eating anyone's lunch. I fully suspect that the dance bard will fall in the same category; decent but not overwhelming.

My point is more that Bard is already one of the most powerful classes and overall overshadows martial classes. By giving it subclasses letting it do few things martials could, but Bard couldn't, this overshadowing begins to feel targetted at that specific class. And seeing how all the supposed buffs for Monk failed to close the power gap between it and Fighter & Barbarian (though it is now less wide), and the class still being at the bottom of perceived power-scale (flip flopping with updates whenever it or Ranger is worse), it feels like it's inviting worst kind of people to use Dance Bard to clown on and bully Monk players.

 

[Remathilis]

My point is more that Bard is already one of the most powerful classes and overall overshadows martial classes. By giving it subclasses letting it do few things martials could, but Bard couldn't, this overshadowing begins to feel targetted at that specific class. And seeing how all the supposed buffs for Monk failed to close the power gap between it and Fighter & Barbarian (though it is now less wide), and the class still being at the bottom of perceived power-scale (flip flopping with updates whenever it or Ranger is worse), it feels like it's inviting worst kind of people to use Dance Bard to clown on and bully Monk players.

I'm going to assume you have similar problems with war clerics, bladesingers, hexblades, valor bards, etc?

 

[Not a Decepticon]

I'm going to assume you have similar problems with war clerics, bladesingers, hexblades, valor bards, etc?

None of them seem targetted at Monk in particular, even Bladesinger needs a weapon.

 

[Remathilis]

None of them seem targetted at Monk in particular, even Bladesinger needs a weapon.

They target other martials. If a bard with punch is a problem, a wizard with swords should be as well.