D&D (2024) Which subclasses “should” have been in 2024

So you would have both an Eldritch Knight and a Bladesinger? Those are very different themes in play and that is before you jump into the other types.

Well, no. I was suggesting blending them into a single subclass. But @Stormonu is correct. If the Fighter-Cleric (a.k.a. Paladin) is special enough to have had its own base class (forever), then the Fighter-Mage is definitely special enough (and loooong overdue) to have its own base class.

So you would have a "Swordmage" class (by whatever name) with EK, Bladesinger...maybe Arcane Archer...annnnnd...I dunno, something else that uses weapons and spells together.

Then that's your caster-warrior tropes. The Fighters, as they should always be, are a non-magic reliant class (other than enchanted weapons, armor, special items, potions, etc...).
At the table I see very few people that are anti spells or anti magic and few completely non-magic PCs at all even though those options are available.
No, I wouldn't expect so. I don't know that I've ever played with anyone who was "anti-spell/anti-magic. I certainly am not. I can count the number of non-caster classes (or multi-classed with) I've played in the last 40 years on one hand.

And, your observation is kinda my point. We do see few "completely non-magic PCs at all." For several editions now, 5e and this newer 5 being some of the most egregious, the game has been getting more and more "magic-based." "Give 'em spells" seems to be the sole design aesthetic and mechanic.

Now, is that because of popular video games? Is that because non-magic folks "feel" like they don't keep up/play as well what have you with the magic-users? Is it our general laziness as a society/culture....I don't want to play someone who has to work hard to better themselves, let me have my "click here/immediate answer" with my spells? Is it flat out aesthetics...the glamorous or mysterious or alluring "pretty people" are the sorcerers and warlocks (and bards, arguably). So if you don't have magic, you can't sit with the popular kids?

We could have a lengthy and in depth conversation to examine the "why" that is....but that's not what this thread is for.

My interest/concern is that giving everyone magic flies in the face of the Dungeons & Dragons game. And -at the very least- more than 6 of 48 character options should have options for character archetypes -as MOST mythologies and legendary hero stories are/go- who do not cast spells/use magic (though, admittedly, most mythological figures receive magical aid or items to fulfill their quests).
I think giving all Rogues and Fighters spells as a base class ability would be more popular than removing the spell casting subclass options.
It probably would be "more popular." That doesn't make it a "good idea." And, as I said, would fly in the face. of... I would probably argue "not be"... D&D.

Would probably be a fun game! Would be a great "[very] high fantasy" game and default setting where everyone has/uses magic all of the time.

A group of Dungeons and Dragons adventurers with no casters should be able to go on adventures with a reasonable chance of survival and success. Find/avoid the traps. Beat the monsters. Get the treasures. Save the damsel/village/kingdom/world.

In a game where every character has spells, there's no need for skills... or backgrounds or themes of any kind, then. No need for weapon expertise or specializations. Why bother saying your fighter has a two-handed sword or a club. It's about the spells you use in combat. No need for thinking on your feet or figuring things out among/with your companions. Just "Which one of us has the immediate fix-it spell for this situation?"

That doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun... or D&D ... to me.
 

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The only one that leaps out at me is College of Eloquence. Glamour just feels like "a particularly Bard-y Bard," while Eloquence actually focuses on something specific (diplomacy), which would have been more effective. It's also, IMO, a better match to the College of Dance in thematic contrast terms. Dance is a physical art, usually without words; eloquence is a verbal skill, usually without physical motions. Glamour does not seem to meaningfully contrast with Dance other than, I guess, being somewhat more magical? But we already had the mundane/magical divide with Valor vs Lore.
 

Fighter . . . . . . . Thief . . . . . . . Ranger . . . . . . . Barbarian . . . . . . Monk
-Battlemaster . . -Acrobat . . . . . .-Hunter . . . . . . .-Berserker . . . . . . . .-Open Hand
-Cavalier . . . . . . -Assassin . . . . . -Vanguard . . . . .-Beastmaster . . . . . -Kensei/Swordmaster
-Dungeoneer . . -Mastermind . .-Hinterlander . . -Brawler . . . . . . . . .
-Shadow
-Armiger . . . . . . -Swashbuckler
.-Warden. . . . . . .-Totem Warrior . . . -Sun Soul

Cleric . . . . . . . .Bard . . . . . . . Paladin . . . . . . . Warlock . . . . . Guardian
-Advocate . . . . .-Lore . . . . . . . .-Devotion . . . . . .-Fiend . . . . . . . .
-Swordmage
-Theurge . . . . . .-Valor . . . . . . . -Vengeance . . . . -Fae . . . . . . . . . .-
Eldritch Knight
-Templar . . . . . .-Troubadour . . -Ancients . . . . . .-Celestial . . . . . -Bladesinger
-Inquisitor . . . . -Trickster . . . . .-Dragonlord . . . . -Umbral . . . . . .-Mystic Archer


Mage . . . . . . . . Druid . . . . . . Psychic . . . . . . Sorcerer (if one must)
-Generalist . . . . .-Land . . . . . . .-Psyon . . . . . . . . .-Draconic
-Illusionist
. . . . . -Sea . . . . . . . .-Psy-Warrior . . . .-Storm
-Abjure
r . . . . . . . -Moon . . . . . -Soulknife . . . . . .-Wild
-Necromancer
. .-Sky . . . . . . . .-Medium . . . . . . .-Elementalist
 

Fighter . . . . . . . Thief . . . . . . . Ranger . . . . . . . Barbarian . . . . . . Monk
-Battlemaster . . -Acrobat . . . . . .-Hunter . . . . . . .-Berserker . . . . . . . .-Open Hand
-Cavalier . . . . . . -Assassin . . . . . -Vanguard . . . . .-Beastmaster . . . . . -Kensei/Swordmaster
-Dungeoneer . . -Mastermind . .-Hinterlander . . -Brawler . . . . . . . . .
-Shadow
-Armiger . . . . . . -Swashbuckler .-Warden. . . . . . .-Totem Warrior . . . -Sun Soul
Personally, I would remove Swashbuckler from Thief and, between Fighter and Thief, I would include a light armor fighter class with the following subclasses: Brawler/Pugilist, Corsair/Pirate, Duelist/Fencer, Kensei/Swordmaster, Musketeer, Swashbuckler,
 





The biggest omission for me is the Rogue - Swashbuckler subclass, it has been used so many times in games I've been, possibly even more than the basic Rogue - Thief at this point, that I was very surprised it wasn't included in the 2024 PHB. I always said it should have been in the 2014 PHB in fact.

Next would be for me Sorcerer - Shadow and Cleric - Grave.

Also the Wizard - Necromancer, but my guess is that it will be included in the 2024 DMG together with other NPC-oriented subclasses.

I am not a fan of the "4 subclasses per class" schema, but I also thought that the 2014 subclasses were too few for half of the classes: a minimum of 3 subclasses per class would suffice, and then I would not have cut the Cleric's and Wizard's subclasses list. I would have certainly not included psionics subclasses in the PHB, as this now forces the DM to include psionics by default.
 

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