Crunchy Tactical RPG like 4e/pf2e but for Urban Fantasy?

[dbm]

I haven't played the latest GURPS I admit, but I played the previous edition, which people claimed was "tactical" - it wasn't. Not even with stuff added to supposedly make it be. So my unless they've made huge changes...

Clearly our mileages vary as GURPS is extremely tactical in my experience. GURPS provides many, varied and impactful choices every round of combat.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If you want super-crunchy, 10x10 cm hit locations, look for Bureau 13: Stalking the Night Fantastic, by Tri-Tac. I don't normally recommend it, as the detail level is WAY too high... I'll note that the novels are decent fun, and the game can do all the weird «bleep»ery the first novel has... Probably out of print.

The TriTac games can be acquired in PDF on DriveThru these days.

 

[aramis erak]

Clearly our mileages vary as GURPS is extremely tactical in my experience. GURPS provides many, varied and impactful choices every round of combat.

Most of the groups using GURPS I've encountered don't break out the maps, and generally use the minimum options... Most of the really reduce it to TOTM and D&D style "Did I hit him?" mode.

Plus, there's a verisimitude issue with GURPS. Too much happening in too little time.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Most of the groups using GURPS I've encountered don't break out the maps, and generally use the minimum options... Most of the really reduce it to TOTM and D&D style "Did I hit him?" mode.

Plus, there's a verisimitude issue with GURPS. Too much happening in too little time.

The closest to tactical it got for us was with GURPS Martial Arts, which was full of cool and fun stuff on paper, but in actual practice it was generally a no-brainer and people were often just repeating the same move and stuff.

 

[aramis erak]

The closest to tactical it got for us was with GURPS Martial Arts, which was full of cool and fun stuff on paper, but in actual practice it was generally a no-brainer and people were often just repeating the same move and stuff.

in actual heavy-blade fencing, I use the same four attacks a lot. A percussive cut to the leg, usually their left, a push cut to the arm (whichever's more open), or a thrust to head or thrust to body.
Which I use is based upon what opening.
If the guy I'm facing leaves the same spot open, and Parries just barely in time, I'm going to spam that attack until he changes openings or I hit.
The thing is, I have to make a snap judgement. Every time.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

in actual heavy-blade fencing, I use the same four attacks a lot. A percussive cut to the leg, usually their left, a push cut to the arm (whichever's more open), or a thrust to head or thrust to body.
Which I use is based upon what opening.
If the guy I'm facing leaves the same spot open, and Parries just barely in time, I'm going to spam that attack until he changes openings or I hit.
The thing is, I have to make a snap judgement. Every time.

Sure, and as a fellow fencer (sabre primarily) that makes sense. But as I recall, with GURPS MA there was typically an attack that basically mechanically best for your character, and whilst you'd have a bunch of other stuff you could do, there was little reason to change that up. I'd contrast this with the Street Fighter WoD game*, which did give you a bit more to think about (though it had other issues). It can be a difficult balance I admit because you don't want to cause analysis paralysis, particularly over choosing from a bunch of actions which only give minor benefits (+1 here, -1 there, etc.), as that can feel deeply unrewarding and time-waste-y (he said, thinking of the FUZION-based, HERO-inspired Champions: The New Millennium).

* = I'd love to see a history of WW which got interviews with the right people (including the sadly vanished-seeming Joshua Gabriel Timbrook) to ask them more about their interestingly-close relationship with Capcom, which is how they got the SF licence in the first place, and which apparently lead to actual discussions with Capcom over licencing and making a Werewolf: The Apocalypse-based 2D Fighter in the later '90s (this was after Vampire Saviour/Darkstalkers came out, note).

 

[aramis erak]

Sure, and as a fellow fencer (sabre primarily) that makes sense. But as I recall, with GURPS MA there was typically an attack that basically mechanically best for your character, and whilst you'd have a bunch of other stuff you could do, there was little reason to change that up. I'd contrast this with the Street Fighter WoD game*, which did give you a bit more to think about (though it had other issues). It can be a difficult balance I admit because you don't want to cause analysis paralysis, particularly over choosing from a bunch of actions which only give minor benefits (+1 here, -1 there, etc.), as that can feel deeply unrewarding and time-waste-y (he said, thinking of the FUZION-based, HERO-inspired Champions: The New Millennium).

* = I'd love to see a history of WW which got interviews with the right people (including the sadly vanished-seeming Joshua Gabriel Timbrook) to ask them more about their interestingly-close relationship with Capcom, which is how they got the SF licence in the first place, and which apparently lead to actual discussions with Capcom over licencing and making a Werewolf: The Apocalypse-based 2D Fighter in the later '90s (this was after Vampire Saviour/Darkstalkers came out, note).

Yeah, Streetfighter did well with martial arts - I've run a couple short campaigns of it... Note that WoD Combat is the de-Capcom'd version.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yeah, Streetfighter did well with martial arts - I've run a couple short campaigns of it... Note that WoD Combat is the de-Capcom'd version.

Yes it is. I always loved WoD Combat, especially since it caused me to absolutely break a bizarre cross-game attempt at "surprise PvP" when I was at university to the point where the people who had secretly organised this bollocks decided to call it off. Double-barrelled shotguns loaded with silver buckshot aren't anything to laugh at, even when fired by a weenie little vampire! Still remember the colour draining from that guy's face as he realized what happened lol.

Moral of the story: for god's sake don't drop un-warned, un-agreed cross-table PvP on people!

 

[aramis erak]

Yes it is. I always loved WoD combat, especially since it caused me to absolutely break a bizarre cross-game attempt at "surprise PvP" when I was at university to the point where the people who had secretly organised this bollocks decided to call it off. Double-barrelled shotguns loaded with silver buckshot aren't anything to laugh at, even when fired by a weenie little vampire! Still remember the colour draining from that guy's face as he realized what happened lol.

Moral of the story: for god's sake don't drop un-warned, un-agreed cross-table PvP on people!

I think a miscommunication happened, I was referencing the book, A World of Darkness: Combat... where they port the Streetfighter: The Storytelling Game mechanics over for use in place of the corebook rules.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think a miscommunication happened, I was referencing the book, A World of Darkness: Combat... where they port the Streetfighter: The Storytelling Game mechanics over for use in place of the corebook rules.

No, no miscommunication! The rules which absolutely destroyed Mr Surprise PvP McWerewolf were from WoD: Combat's shotgun rules, and what was particularly extra-funny was we'd only been told the WoD: Combat rules would be in use at the beginning of the session, and it became clear it was because Mr Surprise and his buds were intending to use "Kewl Werewolf Fighting Moves" to flashily slaughter us neonate vampires.

WoD: Combat, the physical book was literally still on the table when this happened. What is the finest thing in life Conan? I think it's actually to watch your self-proclaimed enemies immediately hoist by their own petards!