Sell me on Warhammer fantasy rpg?

[Retreater]

Dragonbane never ramps up, though.

Well, you can increase your skills. - which honestly is pretty much the only ramping that happens in Warhammer 4e. Or Call of Cthulhu. Or Savage Worlds. Or d6 Star Wars. Or Palladium.
Basically, any game that's not D&D or derived from D20 class-based games.

 

[TheSword]

Wow, thank you for the answer. I'll strike it from the list!

The two contenders for my next system are ShadowDark or Dragronbane, for now.

I'm trying to get the same ''feel'' as when playing BG 1-2 back in the days, so something gritty but with a dose of videogame-yness.

Please don't strike it from the list until you take a closer look. Its an awesome system. Plus I'm sure Retreater won't mind me mentioning that he's fallen off every system hard.

Here's a thread where I tried to articulate the things I found awesome about the system. I've been playing 4th ed for about 3 years and currently playing or DMing 4 weekly/monthly campaigns in the system.

A few things I really like about WFRP

So I’m about to convert another group to WFRP 4e that I previously played D&D with. That will be the fourth group now - all with campaigns still running 6+ months later and in one case years later - which is nice. I thought I would give examples of a few of the things that I really like about...

www.enworld.org

Summary:

• Combat is very tactical and has consequences
• Levelling up is interesting
• Careers are flexible and awesome
• Social encounters are a thing and is baked into the rules

One misconceptions is that it is deadly. That isn't true. You have a few Fate points that act as extra lives. So yes there is a chance you die falling off a roof (slim but possible) but you would just be able to spend a fate to avoid death.

Also its not true that levelling up is complicated or only skill related. It really isn't. You an increase skills, ability stats or talents. Because its broken down into small XP awards every session you're really just spending a little bit at a time.

Lastly A poorly designed character may not be effective but that is entirely a result of player choice not anything the system puts on you. its the only system I've ever seen where a rat-catcher, merchant or blacksmith can be as effective as a wizard or knight. Yes you could chose to play a farmer with no Weapon Skill who attacks with a broken chair leg. But you could also play a farmer who is pretty skilled with a woodaxe, or defends with a quarterstaff better than a knight with a sword - which is pretty cool.

 

[TheSword]

Good question. Some points;

• Less active abilities and ressources for characters.

There are no daily charge/short rest/long rest powers in WFRP. You can give anything a go as often as you want.

• Power budget comes more from adventuring rewards than from the characters normal progression.

Equipment makes a big difference. DM awards XP granularly based on XP awards for stuff achieved in the session.

• Kits that modifies your base class with pros and cons instead of another layer of character build.

Careers determine where you can most effectively spend XP but you can still learn things outside of your career through a little training. Effectively the entire career system is about kits.

• Features come online way sooner than lvl 11+.

You can be effective and interesting from character creation. Day 1. Fully realised.

• Less reliance on ability scores.

Ability scores are the base upon which the skill system works. But a base human would start with 30 in each ability score on average but it might be as high as 40 or low as 20. However the skills that you choose will stack on top of this. So its possible to invest your XP in skills or talents to balance out low scores. These will generally have a bigger impact than the base ability scores.

Just some thoughts.

 

[TheSword]

One more point that I have never mentioned before. The casual group of players that I DM for (all novice TTRPGers, that mainly play board/CRPG games) got far more engaged in WFRP than in D&D. The simplest things in WFRP tend to be more interesting and engaging than in D&D because the system is far more nuanced.

One of my shyer players plays an apprentice physician. He got in a fist fight with two pirates what were picking on him. In D&D they would have been making attack rolls and 1d3 damage until one side or the other ran out of hp and then fell unconscious.

In WFRP he luckily blocked the first to attacks from the pirates. One of which stumbled with a fumble. The good doctor managed to strike the first pirate in the head with a critical and not only did extra damage but knocked the pirate unconscious. He was then able to convince the second not to strike by using intimidate as a defence roll to shake his bloodied fist in the second pirates face. These aren't DM fiat abstractions this is a defined part of the rules. I find casual players engage far more with the unpredictability and wackiness of the system than D&D's finely tuned norms.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

... D&D's finely tuned norms.

Hey The Sword. I am really enjoying all your posts about Warhammer. I really do want to try it someday.

But that bit I quoted. That I cannot agree with. ;-)

 

[jdrakeh]

Hi,

Im trying to move on from D&D for various reason and am in the market for a new TTRPG. Im wondering if WFRPG 4e (Cubicle 7 ?) could be the one. Love the flavor and the lore, but Ive always been intimidated by the new mechanics.

Id like to l know does the game play; is it super crunchy or tactical? Does it requires convoluted maths to resolve action? Etc
My players are pretty casual and 5e and things like Fantasy Age are the maximum they can handle.

Anyway, I'd like to hear your opinion!

If you'd like a super user-friendly (low rules overhead) entry point to the world of Warhammer, I can hook you up with a gratis copy of Small But Vicious Hack, which is how I explore that setting now. It's complete in two pages, plus includes an extra in the form of a bestiary describing common WFRP monsters (and non-human races). Just PM and let me know you're interested.

 

[TheSword]

Hey The Sword. I am really enjoying all your posts about Warhammer. I really do want to try it someday.

But that bit I quoted. That I cannot agree with. ;-)

Ok - so by that I mean there is a pretty set expectation to how 5e works. You hit things with weapons repeatedly until you reduce their hps. They hit you repeatedly until they remove your hp. The balance in the game is generally between the amount of damage dealt and the amount of hp things have and that equates to 80% of combat. Damage spells are really just variations of attacks with a save instead of an attack roll. It all boils down to hp depletion. A few characters may have buff or debuff if they choose to use them but in most cases the encounter will end with hp loss at some point. Thats 5e. Thats what I meant by norm.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

That is indeed the norm of DnD.

It's the "finely tuned" I was making a joke about. Clearly not a good joke. So I'll just go stand in a corner for a bit.

 

[Retreater]

Plus I'm sure Retreater won't mind me mentioning that he's fallen off every system hard.

This is pretty true.
(To be fair, I did suggest taking a look at the Starter Set as a good entry.)

 

[Crusadius]

Hi,

Im trying to move on from D&D for various reason and am in the market for a new TTRPG. Im wondering if WFRPG 4e (Cubicle 7 ?) could be the one. Love the flavor and the lore, but Ive always been intimidated by the new mechanics.

Id like to l know does the game play; is it super crunchy or tactical? Does it requires convoluted maths to resolve action? Etc
My players are pretty casual and 5e and things like Fantasy Age are the maximum they can handle.

Anyway, I'd like to hear your opinion!

A new and unfamiliar system is always intimidating. You have no system mastery and will end up flipping through the book trying to find a rule that does not explicitly details the exact situation you need to resolve. System mastery comes with time, and this will be true with any new system.

Coming from 5E any game that has its roots in an earlier D&D system will seem familiar and present less obstacles. WFRP is not one of those systems so will be quite intimidating, especially with a core book of nearly 350 pages in size, smaller than expected font-size, and rules that might not be where you expect.

That said, I don't consider WFRP super crunchy, just crunchy, and some tactics are required because combat can get deadly and magical healing isn't freely available (but bandages are). The math may require subtraction on the odd occasion (character creation/advancement will require more math but you don't do this every minute of every session so I don't think it's a big problem).