Sell me on Warhammer fantasy rpg?

[Delazar]

Well, you can increase your skills. - which honestly is pretty much the only ramping that happens in Warhammer 4e. Or Call of Cthulhu. Or Savage Worlds. Or d6 Star Wars. Or Palladium.
Basically, any game that's not D&D or derived from D20 class-based games.

And get new Heroic Abilities (like, mini-feats) every few sessions!

 

[John R Davis]

The best fantasy system I've played in the last few years is the Talisman RPG. I know it's licence is changing. The setting isn't great but as it comes from the same family as Warhammer it might fit quite well.
I have played a campaign of 4e WHFRP and the rules are convoluted. Setting n art is still great

 

[Aldarc]

Good question. Some points;

• Less active abilities and ressources for characters.
• Power budget comes more from adventuring rewards than from the characters normal progression.
• Kits that modifies your base class with pros and cons instead of another layer of character build.
• Features come online way sooner than lvl 11+.
• Less reliance on ability scores.

I know I can do all that with 5e, it just soooo much work.

This is helpful. So with the above in mind, you also mentioned that you played Fantasy AGE. What are your opinions about Fantasy AGE? What about it works for your group and what doesn't? Just trying to get a better gauge on your group before making recommendations.

 

[mamba]

The best fantasy system I've played in the last few years is the Talisman RPG. I know it's licence is changing. The setting isn't great but as it comes from the same family as Warhammer it might fit quite well.

Talisman Adventures? How does that come from the same family as Warhammer? System wise it seems completely different.

I do like its system though, shame they lost the license

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

This is helpful. So with the above in mind, you also mentioned that you played Fantasy AGE. What are your opinions about Fantasy AGE? What about it works for your group and what doesn't? Just trying to get a better gauge on your group before making recommendations.

My group quite liked it a few years ago. When I introduced them to "D&D" (read: TTRPG) I started them with Beyond the Wall and F-AGE. Turns were very slow, because adding 3 dice and checking for Stunt requires being a rocket scientist, if you'd believe my players

My main problem with AGE is the HP bloat and the lack of enemies. I can create my own, sure, but since their are built the same way the PC are (meaning 8 stats + focus and tiered talents), its quite the endeavor. I once converted the enemies from Sunless Citadel to FAGE and it took a whole day. Plus, having the Talents without any description in the monster statblock (for the few enemies in the book) is pretty unhelpful; just write the effects of the Talents in the statblock!

Also, you rapidly reach the ''auto-hit most creature'' status, since DEF is pretty hard to increase. After lvl 3-4 you often roll not to see if you hit, but how well you hit and generate Stunt. Which I dont mind that much, but I wonder if there's a way to to reduce the reduce the number of roll required. Like, when you auto-hit, just roll the Stunt Die, no need to roll the whole 3d6.

Since Dragon AGE is back in print for the release of Veilguard (I wonder if GR will get back the license to do something with it?), I gave my book to a friend of mine whose a newly converted fanatic of DA lore. So maybe she'll GM a game for us.

 

[Aldarc]

My group quite liked it a few years ago. When I introduced them to "D&D" (read: TTRPG) I started them with Beyond the Wall and F-AGE. Turns were very slow, because adding 3 dice and checking for Stunt requires being a rocket scientist, if you'd believe my players

My main problem with AGE is the HP bloat and the lack of enemies. I can create my own, sure, but since their are built the same way the PC are (meaning 8 stats + focus and tiered talents), its quite the endeavor. I once converted the enemies from Sunless Citadel to FAGE and it took a whole day. Plus, having the Talents without any description in the monster statblock (for the few enemies in the book) is pretty unhelpful; just write the effects of the Talents in the statblock!

Also, you rapidly reach the ''auto-hit most creature'' status, since DEF is pretty hard to increase. After lvl 3-4 you often roll not to see if you hit, but how well you hit and generate Stunt. Which I dont mind that much, but I wonder if there's a way to to reduce the reduce the number of roll required. Like, when you auto-hit, just roll the Stunt Die, no need to roll the whole 3d6.

Since Dragon AGE is back in print for the release of Veilguard (I wonder if GR will get back the license to do something with it?), I gave my book to a friend of mine whose a newly converted fanatic of DA lore. So maybe she'll GM a game for us.

Was this 1st Edition FAGE or 2nd Edition FAGE? I presume the former. FAGE 2E now includes bonuses to Defense and Damage as part of character advancement, though I agree that Defense doesn't increase by much. There are also options in FAGE 2E for lower HP. Modern AGE also tends to have lower HP as well. Not trying to persuade you towards FAGE. However, I do want to let you know that it's there.

Have you looked into the Cypher System? I was reminded of it when you talked about BG1-2 adding kits to the class, as players choose a Descriptor, a Type (Class), as well as a Focus. So you could be a Smart (Descriptor) Warrior (Type) who Bears a Halo of Fire (Focus). There are usually not that many active abilities that you are managing as a player. Some people love the system, some people hate it.

You may also want to check out Shadow of the Demon Lord. It has been described by designer Rob Schwalb as his love letter to Warhammer Fantasy and an alternate 5e D&D that could have been (as he was on the 5e design team). Shadow of the Weird Wizard is a PG-13 version of Shadow of the Demon Lord that is more of a love letter to Gary Gygax's Greyhawk. I would say that both SotDL and SotWW are lighter and easier to run than 5e D&D.

I don't really care if you pick a game that I love or hate. I am personally more interested in finding the game that works for you and your table.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Was this 1st Edition FAGE or 2nd Edition FAGE? I presume the former. FAGE 2E now includes bonuses to Defense and Damage as part of character advancement, though I agree that Defense doesn't increase by much. There are also options in FAGE 2E for lower HP. Modern AGE also tends to have lower HP as well. Not trying to persuade you towards FAGE. However, I do want to let you know that it's there.

Have you looked into the Cypher System? I was reminded of it when you talked about BG1-2 adding kits to the class, as players choose a Descriptor, a Type (Class), as well as a Focus. So you could be a Smart (Descriptor) Warrior (Type) who Bears a Halo of Fire (Focus). There are usually not that many active abilities that you are managing as a player. Some people love the system, some people hate it.

You may also want to check out Shadow of the Demon Lord. It has been described by designer Rob Schwalb as his love letter to Warhammer Fantasy and an alternate 5e D&D that could have been (as he was on the 5e design team). Shadow of the Weird Wizard is a PG-13 version of Shadow of the Demon Lord that is more of a love letter to Gary Gygax's Greyhawk. I would say that both SotDL and SotWW are lighter and easier to run than 5e D&D.

I don't really care if you pick a game that I love or hate. I am personally more interested in finding the game that works for you and your table.

I wish they did a fantasy version of Modern AGE for class-less fantasy gaming! I could probably mush the two of them together: Use M-AGE character building with F-AGE Talents and Foci. Maybe if I workshop monster stablock as their own thing (ala D&D) instead of building them from the same feature pools as PCs ? I guess that could make it easier to play...

I own both SotDL and SoftWW. Love the former, but strangely not a fan of the later. It seems the few additions made the game clunkier in my opinion. I could give a try with SotDL.

I really dislike the Cypher System at the actual table. Spending your stat pool to use your abilities is pretty weird, even worse when you are playing a melee fighter and enemies damage you. The balance between foci is also all over the place; I played a character that Dive in Dark Place next to a character who Hunter Monsters. My contribution was....lacking.

 

[Aldarc]

I wish they did a fantasy version of Modern AGE for class-less fantasy gaming! I could probably mush the two of them together: Use M-AGE character building with F-AGE Talents and Foci. Maybe if I workshop monster stablock as their own thing (ala D&D) instead of building them from the same feature pools as PCs ? I guess that could make it easier to play...

I believe that there is a fanmade classless version of FAGE floating somewhere on Green Ronin's Discord but I haven't given it a shot yet.

I own both SotDL and SoftWW. Love the former, but strangely not a fan of the later. It seems the few additions made the game clunkier in my opinion. I could give a try with SotDL.

There are pluses and minuses to both. I think that some of those additions in the latter were the result of negatives with the former.

I really dislike the Cypher System at the actual table. Spending your stat pool to use your abilities is pretty weird, even worse when you are playing a melee fighter and enemies damage you. The balance between foci is also all over the place; I played a character that Dive in Dark Place next to a character who Hunter Monsters. My contribution was....lacking.

As I said, people seem to love it or hate it. I've rarely found people in between the poles. We don't need to say more about the Cypher System then.

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I would again take a look at Zweihänder by Daniel Fox, who is admittedly a divisive figure for a variety of reasons. Nevertheless, I have found that people tend to find his Zweihänder a little easier for people dipping their toes into Warhammer Fantasy. I believe that his Zweihänder Reforged version is hoping to make it a bit more unique from WFRP. It also names Berserk, Castlevania, Bloodborne, Game of Thrones, and The Black Company as inspiration, and you are playing a survivor who had a brush with death.

I do think that the crunch level is probably around the same as 5e D&D. I think that WFRP and BRP tend to have front-heavy crunch, but the roll under mechanic tends to speed things up in actual play. I have not actually played Zweihänder. That has more to do with finding games that my partner would also enjoy playing.

Here is Professor Dungeoncraft talking about both the Zweihänder Starter Set and Warlock!



Finally, I believe that there is a fan made project on the Dragonbane Discord for a Warhammer Fantasy conversion. I haven't really looked into it, but it's there.

 

[John R Davis]

Talisman Adventures? How does that come from the same family as Warhammer? System wise it seems completely different.

I do like its system though, shame they lost the license

I meant GW!

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I loved Warhammer RPG.

I found it crunchy and gear is super important so you will find yourself pouring over equipment tables.

I know someone didn't like the 'mathy' xp tables for levelling but this is, by far, my favorite part. It's super customizable and there is no sudden power-jump like in D&D. You don't suddenly get 5 abilities when you level. You pay for each ability as you adventure. Levels only come when you've spent enough xp to hit a threshold.

I liked combat a lot but it's been so long since I've played, I can't really comment on specifics.