D&D (2024) How many of you would implement the drop to 0 HP, get 1 level of exhaustion house rule?

[Horwath]

My re-organized Exhaustion chart (that moves the more onerous penalties further down) is as follows:

Lvl 1: Speed reduced to half.
Lvl 2: Max HP reduced to half.
Lvl 3: Disadvantage on attack rolls, saving throws, and STR, DEX, CON ability checks.
Lvl 4: Disadvantage on INT, WIS, CHA ability checks.
Lvl 5: Unconscious.
Lvl 6: Death.

Using this chart for a failed death saves replacement has worked wonders.

no matter how you mix it around, 2014 rules for exhaustion are awful.

far superior, and we have been using it far before UA print is:

-1 to all saves, checks and attacks. -1 to AC and DCs, -5ft speed penalty per level(or per 2 levels if you are going for 10 levels max exhaustion).

 

[Yaarel]

The main reason to implementing the exhaustion and scar is narrative.

I have a strong sense that all hit points are nonphysical before becoming "Bloodied". This means diminishing energy and alertness. Even after Bloodied, the injuries are mainly superficial − scrapes and bruises − but getting sloppy, punch drunk, and some attacks are landing painfully. Typically Bloodied means needing bandages afterward.

Only if the character reaches 0 hit points is there ever a proverbial "sword thru the gut".

I need someway to mechanically represent this serious, life-threatening, injury.

I dont want the mechanic to end the game for the player (or eventually lead to a TPK). But I want a lingering consequence to convey that injury happened.

 

[Horwath]

The main reason to implementing the exhaustion and scar is narrative.

I have a strong sense that all hit points are nonphysical before becoming "Bloodied". This means diminishing energy and alertness. Even after Bloodied, the injuries are mainly superficial − scrapes and bruises − but getting sloppy, punch drunk, and some attacks are landing painfully. Typically Bloodied means needing bandages afterward.

Only if the character reaches 0 hit points is there ever a proverbial "sword thru the gut".

I need someway to mechanically represent this serious, life-threatening, injury.

I dont want the mechanic to end the game for the player (or eventually lead to a TPK). But I want a lingering consequence to convey that injury happened.

-1 to everything exhaustion level can describe that well.

you are getting worse at EVERYTHING you do.

2014 1st level of exhaustion might mean nothing to a dumb meatsack of a tank with only attack and HP to worry about, but it devastated skill-monkey builds.

 

[Yaarel]

-1 to everything exhaustion level can describe that well.

you are getting worse at EVERYTHING you do.

2014 1st level of exhaustion might mean nothing to a dumb meatsack of a tank with only attack and HP to worry about, but it devastated skill-monkey builds.

Something like the Exhaustion incurs -1 to d20 rolls, but also grants +1 to the d20s of hostiles.

That way casters and noncasters suffer consequences moreorless equally.

 

[ezo]

Yep. Because it means you can't do jack-shite during all the parts of the game that aren't combat. The normal first level of Exhaustion is disadvantage on ability checks. And of the three pillars of the game, how many of them RELY on nothing but ability checks to do anything? TWO of them-- Exploration and Social Interaction. So 66% of the game your character is pretty much F-ed at Level 1 of the Exhaustion table. That SUCKS.

And this is why everyone HATED the Berserker Barbarian Frenzy ability that caused a level of Exhaustion when it ended... because people very quickly realized that their Barbarian character might as well just stick a thumb up their butt for the rest of the game until another combat started because they couldn't do anything. The other two pillars were pointless for them all because they used one of their signature abilities.

Now sure... if your personal game is just combat after combat after combat... disadvantage on non-combat ability checks would not be much of a problem. But in my opinion that is the rare table that doesn't play D&D with a large swathe of exploration and social interaction. So for my money... if you gain Exhaustion due to getting your butt handed to you in combat... then it is your combat abilities that should first take the hit. You takes penalties to that which caused the penalties in the first place.

Seeing as how three of the Exhaustion levels are combat related-- half speed, half hit points, disadvantage on attacks and saves-- and only one is non-combat related-- disadvantage on ability checks-- the more onerous one to me is the one that can get destroyed with only single level of Exhaustion, AND which covers more of the pillars of the game.

At least that's my feeling on the matter. If someone disagrees... that's fine. They can use the original Exhaustion chart if they want.

Ability check disadvantage is an inconvenience at worst IME. It is easy to mitigate and in a party of PCs others can usually help or pick up the slack in other ways.

Considering that gaining exhaustion in this method is due to combat, front-loading the penalties in combat is more onerous IMO.

IME the only other time exhaustion comes into play was during Frostmaiden, but that was only because the DM house-ruled cold-weather clothing provided advantage on CON saves to avoid exhaustion due to exposure, instead of automatic successes.

But, I understand your logic easily enough, and if it works well for you this way then all the better. Thanks for the response.

 

[Horwath]

Something like the Exhaustion incurs -1 to d20 rolls, but also grants +1 to the d20s of hostiles.

That way casters and noncasters suffer consequences moreorless equally.

you should also get -1 to AC and DCs.
that affects casters also, and casters have attack spells.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Hmm... I like a lot of that. One of the issues I have with things like exhaustion is that I want it to be something that players are willing to keep adventuring while having, but that they remember. The -1 per (of the playtest) works, but most players start to break after about -2 (some earlier, but they are wimps). Disadvantage on attacks will pretty much stop anyone.

That is a fair point. My table experience has shown that things that battle against that player mentality are

• In-fiction time constraints and consequences;
• Recharging abilities through HD; and
• DM handing out Inspiration/XP/Milestones (or whatever character growth metric you use) to play to character's TIBF (Traits, Ideals, Bonds, Flaws).

Character's can increase levels in 4 ways in our 5e game
(a) training, up until a point, requires gold, downtime and possible skill challenge
(b) through story, possibly achieving a great feat
(c) experience points earned on TIBF, reflects personal character growth
(d) timeline events

So... how to do it? "Pick your Injury" with a short list of penalties might be just the ticket. The players can pick what they are willing to live with, and I assume will have an eye to what caused them to drop.

So, in the new homebrew engine I plan to migrate to after our current 5e 9+year campaign, the pick your injury works fine up to a point until the wound is too great and your choices become far less attractive.
You buffer the death spiral with an Inspiration point (in this instance called Desperation) at every wound level.
In this system, Inspiration is not as extreme as in the 5e game, so handing out Inspiration (Desperation) is not as significant, but still extremely useful.

 

[Horwath]

So... how to do it? "Pick your Injury" with a short list of penalties might be just the ticket. The players can pick what they are willing to live with, and I assume will have an eye to what caused them to drop.

pick your injury is just translated to: pick whatever has the least effect on my character concept.

I.E:
broken jaw, 50% to waste casting action with verbal components?
just right for my dwarf battlerager!

 

[AnotherGuy]

pick your injury is just translated to: pick whatever has the least effect on my character concept.

I.E:
broken jaw, 50% to waste casting action with verbal components?
just right for my dwarf battlerager!

True, that is why we allow the player's to choose the 1st effect only.
As per the 5e exhaustion track characters determine if the wound affected movement (50%), their ability to perform ANY skill checks, their attack and saving rolls, or their ability to recuperate.

EDIT: I have found the Lingering Injuries table can also be integrated as a replacement effect, particularly for mid-to-higher level games.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It is interesting: I'd want to see the final Exhaustion rules.

Yeah I think a big question is how easy is it to dump Exhaustion and what exactly does it do.

It seems like exhaustion is the -1 to all rolls per level of exhaustion that it was in UA at some point. And I know some people here have certainly thought of having such a house rule, if exhaustion was stacking -1's.

The big problem with the -1 to all rolls per level of exhaustion, which most people seem unable to process, is that it ruins martials and skill users, and has basically no effect on casters.

Like, martials - they have to roll to hit, and so this means they start missing a lot, their DPR and combat effectiveness plummet.

Skill users have to roll skills to act on the world, and so this means they start failing skill checks more and more, and become increasingly unable to impact the world or succeed at anything.

Casters though, retain close to 100% combat effectiveness. Their DPR and ability to control enemies doesn't go down - because they don't roll - enemies do. Basically only their own saves against enemy stuff are penalized - and I guess the few attack roll spells, but the only "caster" reliant on those is Warlock, who isn't a full caster.

Likewise, casters acting on the world through spells never have to make checks or rolls, the spells just succeed, so they can be on completely exhausted, and still able to function extremely well.

As such, this means exhaustion is a huge problem for martials/skill users, and not really a big problem for full casters. That's pretty crap.

Now if exhaustion caused you to lose spell slots, or to have to make a CON check to even cast a spell at all, perhaps that would start to make more sense.