D&D (2024) D&D species article

It's not big.

It's big and muscular.

Orcs and Goliaths are noted for their extreme non-agility-limited strength.
IDK, the "Mountain" is big and muscular, but he is not a better climber, jumper, runner, or swimmer than me (who is much smaller). He can lift a hell of lot more than me, but I am confident that I would best him in those 4 at a minimum (well three - I'm not a great swimmer).
 

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Well that is obviously your opinion. I know for a fact that some players do find it special and flavorful to be able to cast a "spell" as a racial feature. So it is possible that your experience and opinion is the minority, or not. Who knows. The fact is you presume to know better/more, but you don't. None of us do.
I don't think that the answer needs to be "spells." Sometimes it's just having a cool ability that you can use. Almost all kin in Dragonbane have an ability that they can spend their Willpower points to use. None of them are spells. Dwarves, for example, can spend 3 Willpower points to get advantage on an attack to anyone or anything who dealt at least 1 point of damage to them at any point in the past, because they hold grudges. That's flavorful and non-magical but super cool.
 

I don't think that the answer needs to be "spells." Sometimes it's just having a cool ability that you can use. Almost all kin in Dragonbane have an ability that they can spend their Willpower points to use. None of them are spells. Dwarves, for example, can spend 3 Willpower points to get advantage on an attack to anyone or anything who dealt at least 1 point of damage to them at any point in the past, because they hold grudges. That's flavorful and non-magical but super cool.
I was responding to a specific comment that giving species spells didn't feel "special" as an inherit magical ability. I disagreed.

However, I definitely agree that a species "magical" features do not need to be spells. I think whole classes could/should have magic that isn't spells. However, that is not the question I was responding too.
 
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IDK, the "Mountain" is big and muscular, but he is not a better climber, jumper, runner, or swimmer than me (who is much smaller). He can lift a hell of lot more than me, but I am confident that I would best him in those 4 at a minimum (well three - I'm not a great swimmer).
Again

The Mountain is human.

Goliaths and Orcs are super strong Humaniods whose strength doesn't limit their agility.

If you want D&D to be humans in funny hats, then don't cry when everyone is a multicolored spellcaster.

I prefer species who have different physiology in lore to have mechanics to match.
 

Again

The Mountain is human.
Is he? I'm not convinced!
Goliaths and Orcs are super strong Humaniods whose strength doesn't limit their agility.
I must say, that is not how I see orcs. I'm old school and orc are always lesser than fighting men in my eyes (old JTTR influence in me).

Regardless, why do you assume their great size and/or strength doesn't limit their agility in some way? Most lore I see about big beefy orcs (i'm looking at you WoW) appears to limit their agility. I don't really know much about goliaths. Personally I would assume some are more and some less agile than others, similar to humans.

I will admit this is not really high on my list to care about, so I could have easily missed some D&D specific lore that suggests orcs and goliaths are super agile and super strong.
If you want D&D to be humans in funny hats, then don't cry when everyone is a multicolored spellcaster.
Never said anything like, so not sure what you are getting at.
I prefer species who have different physiology in lore to have mechanics to match.
Me to, one reason half-giants (aka goliaths) are Large in my games and can have a max strength of 20 (humans are limited to 18, same for orcs).
 

Is he? I'm not convinced!
They drug test the weight lifting competitions, I believe.


I must say, that is not how I see orcs. I'm old school and orc are always lesser than fighting men in my eyes (old JTTR influence in me).

Regardless, why do you assume their great size and/or strength doesn't limit their agility in some way? Most lore I see about big beefy orcs (i'm looking at you WoW) appears to limit their agility. I don't really know much about goliaths. Personally I would assume some are more and some less agile than others, similar to humans.

I will admit this is not really high on my list to care about, so I could have easily missed some D&D specific lore that suggests orcs and goliaths are super agile and super strong
D&D orc have surpass Tolkien orc and are straight up Uruk Hai or better since 3e.

Common Orcs are stronger, faster, tougher, and rougher than common humans. When WOTC took away their intelligence penalty, they created a race of super Humaniods.

In modern 5e, human ambition and adaptation and divine intervention are the only reasons modern orcs don't take over if not "always evil by the setting rule. They are a whole species where our Olympic athletes would be their weaklings.

And Goliaths are stronger.
 



I'd rather mod all the other small races down to 25. Slower with shorter legs make more logical sense to me.

OKay, good for you.

The designers when looking at either nerfing 24 options (most of which don't show up in this book) or buffing three options (all of which appear in this book) decided it made the most logical sense to make the least disruptive change. Especially since they would need to have a human option that was medium and has a 30 ft movement speed, and a human option that was small and had a 25 ft movement speed, which would have been a bit of a balance problem.

And yet again, your utter disdain for the word balance, or concerns about character parity don't mean that these things are not important to other people who actually purchase and play WoTC's version of the game.
 

As I said above though, the desire by itself is not a problem. Stat bonuses were never particularly interesting as a means to differentiate characters, and I've been pretty consistent about claiming that. I've always believed it was better for the game to make the actions of characters different, because actions speak, stats don't. Dragonborn have dragon breath. Tieflings tap into hellish powers. Orcs are blood-frenzy ferocious. Etc. Making races different by what special thing they do is far and away better than "Orcs have +2 Str and Con, and -4 Cha."

Agreed

That's why they tried to make Warlock pacts into spells

Which they didn't do

that's why they initially made Hunter's Mark a spell

Hunter's mark in 5e was based off a 3.5 Ranger spell. So how far back do we have to go on this?

why Divine Smite has been turned into a spell as well.

Divine Smite was made a spell to make it in-line with the other SEVEN smite spells that already existed, that no one had a single problem with the fact that they were spells. This wasn't because they want to make everything into spells, this was because they could either make an entirely new subsystem that was going to require intense balancing and reworks... or they could make the one outlier a spell.

The spell-ification process is not restricted to any one area. Yes, they do make other kinds of things, but there has been a consistent trend of using spells even when spells are NOT warranted, and essentially never going the other way, turning stuff that is a spell into a non-spell instead.

But "you can cast spell X 1/day" (or whatever) does not feel the same way as a special racial feature that only fnords get. It just doesn't, and it never will. Instead, it feels like...getting to be a weaker spellcaster occasionally. The fact that dragon breath isn't just a spell really does matter. It feels different--even if you could theoretically restructure it as a spell, you really shouldn't, because that feels different.

But there are good reasons. Yes, you could have Forest Gnomes speak with small animals without having them cast Speak with Animals, but that ability was written to have different limitations and left a lot of vague rules situations.

But let's take a more classic example. Telepathy. There were something like 8 different forms of telepathy, some racial, some from classes, some from items, and yes some from spells. And they all worked differently. Sure, they "felt different" than having a standardized version, but it also led to a lot of confusion for players and GMs alike who had to guess the range, actions, and whether or not it was two-way based on the specific version used. It got to the point that one of things they are selling the DMG on is that it will include clarifications to telepathy, alongside stealth and teleportation.

So, I get it, I understand it feels nice to have Fnords get their own special ability, but if that ability is 95% a spell that already exists... I'm actually glad they just have them mechanically reference that spell, because it makes things far less confusing over time.

For an edition that has allegedly prioritized "feel" above all else, because (allegedly) "math is easy," the fact that they keep chucking so many things--no, not absolutely positively everything @Chaosmancer, but FAR too much and consistently more over time--into the flavorless-crappy-feels zone of "you get a couple weird spells!" just flat is not helping.

It sounds like the goliath is a (IMO, rare) example of NOT doing this, and for that I'm glad...even if the "what do you do" sounds incredibly thin and frankly pretty dull.

I also disagree that these things are flavorless. Tieflings Hellish Rebuke for instance has been a spell, it could have been an ability, and it has not lacked in flavor for the past 10 years.
 

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