The Lord of the Rings as [Greenlandian] Fantasy in The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien [edited title]

Welsh and Irish myth and legend are really quite surreal, which I find delightful, but was not Tolkien's jam. The Mabinogion is a wild fever dream.
And the Mabinogion is fairly tame compared with some of the Irish myths. The description of Cuchulainn, with his hair and eyes and joints? Balor of the Evil Eye? Whichever hero it was who went into a frenzy and chopped the tops of eight (three? six? too long ago for me to remember precisely) hills?

Absolutely great fun, but I can see JRRT putting them on the pile marked "Let's save this for when Peter Jackson wants to go really overboard".
 

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This is all a semantic distinction. I think it's clear in my OP I'm using Neolithic to refer to the time-period of the Neolithic period, not any particular stratum of material culture. I even used scare quotes around the word Neolithic.
I don't think it's semantics. Neolithic period is by definition tied to a particular stratum of material culture, which is exactly why the time-range we call Neolithic changes depending which area of the World we are discussing.

All this thread started due to your reply to @Reynard 's request of suggestions for Neolithic settings, which was clearly a request for suggestions for settings whose inhabitants had a cultural and technological level mirroring what we believe characterized Neolithic people on Earth.

You pointed out Tolkien's letter, to which several people replied that while that could be interpreted as LotR taking place around 6000-4000 BCE, that would not fit what the OP was looking for, because the cultures depicted in the Hobbit and LotR do not match what we know of real world Neolithic cultures.

If you simply used Neolithic as the range 10000-4000 BCE but not tied to specific technology levels, why in your reply to one of my previous posts you asked me to clarify which cultural and technological aspects of Tolkien's stories I didn't think matched what is attested for Neolithic people, and pointed out that we don't really know a lot about common folk lifestyle in Middle-Earth, and also that archeological record is incomplete? To me that sounded like you were implying that outside of the main cultures depicted in the books, Tolkien imagined most people living a Stone Age life.

But if your point is simply that Tolkien imagined LotR having taken place around 6000BCE despite the fact that the cultures depicted in the book were significantly more advanced than actual Earth societies of the time, we are in total agreement.
 

And the Mabinogion is fairly tame compared with some of the Irish myths. The description of Cuchulainn, with his hair and eyes and joints? Balor of the Evil Eye? Whichever hero it was who went into a frenzy and chopped the tops of eight (three? six? too long ago for me to remember precisely) hills?

Absolutely great fun, but I can see JRRT putting them on the pile marked "Let's save this for when Peter Jackson wants to go really overboard".
Despite being so inspired by so much real world mythology, it is really interesting how unlike most real world mythologies the Middle Earth mythos ended up: it is remarkable and distinctly his own thing.
 

Despite being so inspired by so much real world mythology, it is really interesting how unlike most real world mythologies the Middle Earth mythos ended up: it is remarkable and distinctly his own thing.
Quite probably because he was one man writing it, so it's internally consistent. Real-world mythologies develop over centuries, evolving as cultures come into contact with new peoples and incorporate their myths into their own. Which god is preeminent changes over time, and in place. Stories are told and retold and adapted to reflect changing views and goals.

The mythologies presented to us reflect the countless versions of their society over the course of centuries and across of hundreds of miles of isolated communities. Inherent contradictions are unavoidable.

Tolkien on the other hand could present a mythos that was uniform and logical, because it was all his own invention.
 

Err what?

Tolkien tells us a huge amount about culture and technology. We have Georgian English Shire, facing destruction by steam engine, to Saxons (with horses instead of ships) in Rohan, almost brought down by gunpowder. There are lots of references to iron and steel (it would be hard to describe mithril as harder than steel to someone unfamiliar with steel) weapons, mail coats (not Stone Age!) and even a Germanic town in The Hobbit. Not to mention Bilbo’s silver spoons which Lobelia hid in her umbrella (which I think was invented some time after the wheel).

You could make a case that the woses had a Stone Age technology, but that’s due to extreme isolation.
My question is what is he actually describing that makes the story incompatible with being set on planet Earth (specifically in Western Europe, the Mediterranean, and Northwest Africa) sometime between 6,500 and 4,000 BC? How does he describe the things you mentioned in a way that conflicts with your beliefs about that time and place?
 


Neolithic is defined as that stage of civilization in which metalworking has yet to be developed.
This shows a lack of familiarity with archaeology. There was indeed working of gold, silver, copper, meteoric iron, and perhaps other native metals in the Stone Age. What marks the end of the Stone Age is the smelting of copper ore, but metals had been worked and beaten into beautiful and useful shapes for millenia before that.

I'm not familiar with that letter, but based on that fragment, IMO Tolkien is simply stating a timeframe for when these events happened in his fantasy version of Earth's history, but he is not making any inference on the living conditions of the common folks of Middle-Earth.
Nor am I. It's you and other posters who have wanted to take my use of the word neolithic to mean something about people's living conditions. I was merely using it for convenience as the name of a time-period which I thought was pretty clear.
 

Whilst Tolkien would have known the classical Atlantean myth (Solon) I’m sure he didn’t believe crackpot conspiracy theories (clue: he died before the internet).
What does this have to do with what I posted, and what's your evidence for what he believed or didn't believe?
 



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