D&D (2024) D&D species article

[CreamCloud0]

You fix it by giving it a strength bonus!!

i do not consider bumping pure stat scores to be the optimal solution to this issue, especially as for most of the other stats they represent multiple skills, just because a species is adept at say, stealth, it doesn't mean they would have high iniative or be good at sleight of hand, the scores themselves affect too many things for them to be the chosen method of modifying a species strengths.

Not really. Because he will outdo the strongest halfling and also not outdo the strongest halfling.

I solved the bolded part in my game by simply allowing scores to go to a max of 20+racial modifiers. So a Goliath will get to 22, a number a halfling will never reach.

i do not see stat scores as an absolute scale of capability that everyone is measured equally on, a 20 STR halfling is not equally as strong as the 20 STR goliath but they are both 'as strong as it is possible for one of their species to become'

 

[Maxperson]

Because is not +2 for goliaths.

The 5e Goliath has double carrying capacity than a human. Not +2.

Remove Powerful Build and you have to give the common goliath 20 STR. +10 STR.

THAT is the problem.

No it isn't, because increased mass giving increased carrying capacity is a thing. You just can't have that AND 0 strength bonus without creating the contradiction. You don't need to double both.

 

[Yaarel]

No it isn't, because increased mass giving increased carrying capacity is a thing. You just can't have that AND 0 strength bonus without creating the contradiction. You don't need to double both.

There are ways to represent carrying capacity without it being a combat bonus relating to Strength.

Game balance must prefer noncombat stats to represent exceptional weightlifting.

 

[Maxperson]

i do not consider bumping pure stat scores to be the optimal solution to this issue, especially as for most of the other stats they represent multiple skills, just because a species is adept at say, stealth, it doesn't mean they would have high iniative or be good at sleight of hand, the scores themselves affect too many things for them to be the chosen method of modifying a species strengths.

There are a few issues there.

First, even if it's not optimal, you don't make it worse by taking away the solution that is already there and not replacing it.

Second, if you replace it with anything other than a strength increase, you are just in the same spot we are in now and need to do a strength bonus on top the new "fix."

Third, stealth doesn't equate to dex. Agility, quickness, grace, etc. does. Elves are not described as extra stealthy, they are described as...

"Elves are a magical people of otherworldly grace, living in the world but not entirely part of it."

Halflings are as a race nimble, which equates to dex.

 

[Maxperson]

There are ways to represent carrying capacity without it being a combat bonus relating to Strength.

Game balance must prefer noncombat stats to represent exceptional weightlifting.

Get punched by a weightlifter and a 10 year old kid and see which hurts more.

 

[Minigiant]

No it isn't, because increased mass giving increased carrying capacity is a thing. You just can't have that AND 0 strength bonus without creating the contradiction. You don't need to double both.

You aren't looking at the whole picture.

What you are saying is

1. "Goliaths should be WAY stronger than Halflings"
2. "Goliath Bonus to Strength should be +2. Halfling penalty to Strength should be -2."
3. "Goliath should use the same carrying capacity formula as a Halfling"

You cannot have all three.

There is no way to make the difference between a 16 strength Halfling fighter and 20 strength Goliath fighter be a Massive difference while both using the same formula for calculating attack rolls and carrying capacity.

It is impossible.

You must accept removing one of the 3 statements.

 

[Yaarel]

Get punched by a weightlifter and a 10 year old kid and see which hurts more.

And if the small person is trained in combat and the weightlifter has no combat training.

Then the weightlifter may be "Strength +0".

The small person may be "Strength +3".

These are combat stats.

 

[Maxperson]

And if the small person is trained in combat and the weightlifter has no combat training.

Then the weightlifter may be "Strength +0".

The small person may be "Strength +3".

No. That's flat out wrong. Trained in combat is skill, not strength. And even if it was strength(and it's not), it still wouldn't take away the weightlifters strength bonus. At best it would be something like Weightlifter +2, trained guy +4 or something.

These are combat stats.

No they aren't.

 

[Maxperson]

You aren't looking at the whole picture.

What you are saying is

1. "Goliaths should be WAY stronger than Halflings"

Stronger. I don't think +2 is way stronger.

1. "Goliath Bonus to Strength should be +2. Halfling penalty to Strength should be -2."

+2 yes. Chimpanzees are about the size of a halfling and are stronger than humans, so -2 isn't necessary.

1. "Goliath should use the same carrying capacity formula as a Halfling"

Nope. Never said that.

You cannot have all three.

I didn't. At said 1.5 of the three. I never said same carrying capacity or -2 for halflings.

 

[CreamCloud0]

There are a few issues there.

First, even if it's not optimal, you don't make it worse by taking away the solution that is already there and not replacing it.

my solution is to replace it with better developed traits

Second, if you replace it with anything other than a strength increase, you are just in the same spot we are in now and need to do a strength bonus on top the new "fix."

no i'm not, you're just fixated on pure stats being the only answer

Third, stealth doesn't equate to dex. Agility, quickness, grace, etc. does. Elves are not described as extra stealthy, they are described as...

"Elves are a magical people of otherworldly grace, living in the world but not entirely part of it."

Halflings are as a race nimble, which equates to dex.

your stealth bonus is derived in part from your dex modifier, so yes, stealth does equate to dex, enough for it to matter, but you missed the actual point i was making, that if you only use stat modifications it's impossible to separate individual skills capabilities from their parent stat, you can't have a very large conspicuous species that is nonetheless very good at subtle sleight of hand, someone skilled at deception but who otherwise is very uncharismatic.