D&D General I'm a Creep, I'm a Powergamer: How Power Creep Inevitably Destroys Editions

[Micah Sweet]

Want more abilities? Multiclass. Use magic items special abilities.

GMs get to use the monsters that have a wide range of neat tricks.

I have to say, when the players get a magic sword that glows and/or a +1 suit of Plate they are darn sight more thankful for it then they were with your basic +1 sword in 5E. At least in my experience. Heck the mage about had a fit when he found a magic wand.

When your special abilities come from magic items instead of your race/class choice, it makes discovering them and using them far more special. Instead of yet just another Eldritch Blast or At Will Misty Step.

I agree, I just think you can thread the needle in the OSR design space. Have some choices, and some abilities that logically come from race or class, and have everything else be emergent from play.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The business-driven decision to publish and sell it (at a then-princely $10 per set) in 1974 is the reason why (probably) all of us in this discussion ever heard of it, got to play it, and are enjoying it now 50 years later.

The later business-driven decision to release mass market intro Basic sets making it easier (or possible at all) for kids to learn it on their own/teach themselves and their peers is the reason a large number of us ever got into it.

If by "the game itself" we mean the availability of players to actually play it with, and its popularity and cultural prevalence, it seems pretty clear that having a business promoting it has been fairly essential.

If by "the game itself" we just mean the pure design, yeah, we might say that's better served without a profit motive being involved. I've seen lots of great designs in the OSR during the height of the blogosphere which were free and just given away and designed for the love of them.

OTOH, 4E is one of my favorite editions, and that's such a massive overhaul that I'm not sure if anyone would ever have designed it if they weren't being paid to do that as a day job. Similarly, some of my favorite and certainly the most beautiful (in terms of production value and art, certainly) books which have been produced in the third party space are absolutely only made possible by their creators being able to sell and make money from them, so they can afford that lovely art, and those offset print, sewn-binding hardcovers.

...which brings us back to 1E AD&D, come to think of it. Those books were spectacular productions for the hobby industry at the time, and they tend to survive and still be usable now, 45ish years later, because TSR was able to sell them for money and thus afford to produce such high quality physical books. Heck, we also know now that all those beautiful boxed sets TSR sold in the 2nd ed era were only sustainable if TSR had been paying close attention to the numbers and had charged more for them, and because they weren't, they were among the factors which bankrupted the company and nearly wound up locking the game IP up with creditors. Which is another example of the game suffering, and nearly dying, because of poor decision making on the business side.

But 2e made so much stuff before that happened. It's legacy is strong today. It was, IMO, worth it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think players want to do awesome stuff.

In general if you ask them whether they enjoy power creep, most would probably say that in theory they dislike it and in practice they don't like the feeling of "needing" to buy more stuff to "keep up", but they like options and new shinies. And books which include new options and shiny toys almost inevitably wind up causing some power creep.

I think the player urge to do awesome stuff needs to be channeled and focused through the lens of fairness to the preferences of everyone at the table. The GM is there too, and they may not want rampant power creep from the players.

 

[mamba]

Some people would rather have power creep than 4e. It's not to every D&D fan's taste.

It doesn’t have to look like 4e to not have power creep

That was an example for a game without it, not a rule for what games without it have to be like

 

[Theory of Games]

I like FirstTimeDM's analysis of 5e power creep. It includes an array of statistical sources. Very interesting.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Want more abilities? Multiclass. Use magic items special abilities.

GMs get to use the monsters that have a wide range of neat tricks.

I have to say, when the players get a magic sword that glows and/or a +1 suit of Plate they are darn sight more thankful for it then they were with your basic +1 sword in 5E. At least in my experience. Heck the mage about had a fit when he found a magic wand.

When your special abilities come from magic items instead of your race/class choice, it makes discovering them and using them far more special. Instead of yet just another Eldritch Blast or At Will Misty Step.

isn't the flip side of that making it feel like nothing about your character but their items are special?

 

[Micah Sweet]

It doesn’t have to look like 4e to not have power creep

That was an example for a game without it, not a rule for what games without it have to be like

Are there any other examples?

 

[Micah Sweet]

isn't the flip side of that making it feel like nothing about your character but their items are special?

Hence threading the needle as I suggested.

 

[DarkCrisis]

isn't the flip side of that making it feel like nothing about your character but their items are special?

There are still special abilities via race and class it’s just not as much.

B/X OSE ylu want an elf just to help with secret doors. Etc

 

[MichaelSomething]

But 2e made so much stuff before that happened. It's legacy is strong today. It was, IMO, worth it.

So you don't mind that 2E put D&D on the course of being owned by a megacorp???