D&D (2024) D&D species article

[Minigiant]

This is why we go outside WotC for these things, from 3pp to our own creative minds.

I didn't mention WOTC

If you create a 3pp RPG with racial ASI and 2 different core rolling systems, you likely wont make any money.

The 5e community does not want it.
The PF2e community is satisfied and would require a TON of content to sway.
The OSR community don't want all the high fantasy races and already have their books.

 

[mamba]

Nimble is what allows you to quickly hop across a stream on the small rocks sticking up out of the water.

the exact same qualities you need for stealth

Also, I note that you left off the ";agile" from that definition. Agility = dexterity. The use in the sentence is also about dexterity and not stealth.

I left it off because I looked at several definitions and not all included it

“quick and exact either in movement or thoughts“

nimble

1. quick and exact either in movement or thoughts: 2. quick and exact either…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[Chaosmancer]

Culture doesn't count.

Orcs can be kings and run governments. WOTC removed these mental blocks from them.

Orcs are more British than humans but humans are no way paragons of civility.

Guess Mechanics don't either, since you didn't even bother addressing that point.

Again

Culture doesn't count.

DROW
SEA ELVES
SHADAR KAI
ASTRAL ELVES

No wood and forests found.



Again. You are using Past D&D to design Modern D&D.

So no reason other than "I think WoTC bad, and I think they did something they never actually did." Cool.

Again, if you WANT to find these pairs, it isn't difficult to find them. It only becomes impossible when you no longer want to find them.

 

[Chaosmancer]

And for those jumping up and saying "YES! WoTC removed all trace of culture from every species! Nothing means anything anymore, they are all vague humanoid blobs with no defining features!!"

Well, I know you WILL tell me that these images, from WoTC, literally meant to depict the default life and culture of these people mean absolutely nothing... but for those who aren't dedicated to eviscerating every decision WoTC has ever made can look at these, and notice some immediate differences I bet.

I mean, who can possibly tell which of these is meant to be which. Completely indistinguishable.

 

[Minigiant]

Guess Mechanics don't either, since you didn't even bother addressing that point.

I don't see Human and Orc mechanics as complimentary anymore.

You could have said Adaptation vs Powering Through but Orcs lack a Strength bonus nor Powerful Build.

They are completely on endurance mode which really isn't a sharp contrast anymore.

So no reason other than "I think WoTC bad, and I think they did something they never actually did." Cool.

Again, if you WANT to find these pairs, it isn't difficult to find them. It only becomes impossible when you no longer want to find them

It's not that WOTC is bad.

It's that the contrasts are weaker. The differences are milder.

For example look at Warhammer.
The contrasts between Warhammer elves and Warhammer dwarfs are blatant and obvious. Even with Warhammer being somewhat over the top you can see even dull a bit the differences. Same with Elves and Dwarves in Warcraft, Dragon Age, MTG, LOTR, etc.

For some the pairs are obvious.
But for others their peers require you to reinforce and put back cultures that Wizards says that they don't necessarily have.

If you turn dwarves into merchants and orcs into sailors, the pairs weaken or disappear.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I don't see Human and Orc mechanics as complimentary anymore.

You could have said Adaptation vs Powering Through but Orcs lack a Strength bonus nor Powerful Build.

They are completely on endurance mode which really isn't a sharp contrast anymore.

Oh no. A strength bonus? How terrible. And they used to be so distinct with their +1 strength more than Humans. It completely made them play entirely differently. I mean a variant human could take a feat and start with a 17 strength, and an orc could start with a 17 strength and have racial abilities. It was so obviously different from each other.
/s

And they aren't complimentary, they lead to different styles of play. All orcs are going to lean into endurance and not going down, regardless of the situation. Humans are going to lean into having the correct tool for the correct job. Yeah, orcs lost Powerful Build, that doesn't mean that they are now impossible to contrast with humans.

It's not that WOTC is bad.

It's that the contrasts are weaker. The differences are milder.

For example look at Warhammer.

Why would I bother looking at Warhammer? Warhammer uses a completely different game system than DnD 5e? You may as well say "But look at Star Trek".

The contrasts between Warhammer elves and Warhammer dwarfs are blatant and obvious. Even with Warhammer being somewhat over the top you can see even dull a bit the differences. Same with Elves and Dwarves in Warcraft, Dragon Age, MTG, LOTR, etc.

Ah yes, I see. Completely and totally different.

For some the pairs are obvious.
But for others their peers require you to reinforce and put back cultures that Wizards says that they don't necessarily have.

I mean, I could believe you that you need to put back things Wizards took out... or I could believe Wizards in what they wrote.

Elf: Created by the god Corellon, the first elves could change their physical forms at will. The elves lost this ability when Corellon exiled them from Arvandor for plotting with another elven deity named Lolth, who tried and failed to usurp Corellon’s dominion. When Lolth was cast down into the Abyss, most elves renounced her treachery and earned Corellon’s forgiveness, but that which Corellon had taken from the elves was lost forever.

No longer able to shape-shift at will, the elves retreated to the Feywild, where their sorrow was deepened by that plane’s influence. Over time, wanderlust and curiosity led many of them to explore other planes of existence, including various worlds in the Material Plane.

Elves have the mystical ability to take on characteristics of the environments with which they are bonded—drow to the Underdark, high elves to fey crossings in the Material Plane, and wood elves to forests. These connections grant elves access to certain kinds of magic.

Elves are blessed with long lives and long memories. From birth, they don’t sleep but instead enter a trance when they need to rest. In this state, elves remain aware of their surroundings while immersing themselves in their own memories. What an elf remembers during this reverie depends largely on how long the elf has lived and the events that have shaped the elf’s existence.

Elves have pointed ears and tend to be light on their feet. Another common physical characteristic of elves is their lack of facial and body hair.

Elves of Many Worlds: After leaving the Feywild, elves established deep roots on worlds throughout the multiverse. Within their respective domains, elves often use their magic and other resources to build fabulous enclaves. The subterranean cities and outposts of the drow, the gleaming
towers and citadels of the high elves, and the forest sanctuaries of the wood elves are nothing short of architectural wonders, which reflect their builders’ otherworldly origins.

Drow: Known for their white hair and dusky gray skin tones, drow typically dwell in the Underdark. Noteworthy exceptions include Drizzt Do’Urden and Jarlaxle Baenre, two drow adventurers of the Forgotten Realms who shun their subterranean homeland. Some drow societies avoid the Underdark altogether. On the world of Eberron, for example, drow dwell in gloomy rainforests and cyclopean ruins on the continent of Xen’drik.

High Elves: On some worlds, high elves refer to themselves by other names. For example, the sun elves and moon elves of Toril (the world of the Forgotten Realms setting) are high elves, as are the Silvanesti and Qualinesti of Krynn (the world of Dragonlance) and the Aereni of Eberron.

Wood Elves: Wood elves are known across the multiverse by many other names, including wild elves, green elves, and forest elves. Grugach are reclusive wood elves on Oerth (the world of the Greyhawk setting), while the Kagonesti and the Tairnadal are wood elves of Krynn and Eberron, respectively.

Dwarf: Resilient like the mountains, dwarves were raised up from the earth in the elder days by a deity of the forge. Called by various names on different worlds—Moradin, Reorx, and others— that god gave dwarves an affinity for stone and metal and for living underground.

Squat and often bearded, the original dwarves carved cities and strongholds into mountainsides and under the earth. Their oldest legends tell of conflicts with the monsters of mountaintops and the Underdark, whether those monsters were towering giants or subterranean horrors. Inspired by those tales, dwarves of any culture often sing of valorous deeds—especially of the little overcoming the mighty.

Dwarves of Many Worlds: On some worlds in the multiverse, the first dwarven settlements were built in hills or mountains, and the dwarven families who trace their ancestry to those settlements call themselves hill dwarves or mountain dwarves, respectively. Oerth and Krynn (the worlds of the Greyhawk and Dragonlance settings, respectively) are examples of worlds that have such dwarven communities.

In other worlds, dwarves have given themselves other cultural designations. For example, on the continent of Faerûn in the Forgotten Realms, the dwarves of the south call themselves gold dwarves, and the dwarves of the north are shield dwarves.

I mean, I am sure you have some deeply compelling evidence that all of this information, included in the playtest version of One DnD, and reflecting a new style and approach of the Species, while including the "of many worlds" information that WoTC repeatedly said were in the PHB isn't going to be included right? Something that really sells the idea that these two species will be bland, tasteless mush that is utterly impossible to tell apart?

Something other than "Elves are not longer proficient in longswords and dwarves are no longer proficient in battleaxes!!!" Right? Maybe some evidence that ANY of the lore for ANY of the settings has changed?

If you turn dwarves into merchants and orcs into sailors, the pairs weaken or disappear.

You can't imagine any possible comparisons between dwarves as merchants, with their focus on laws, number, and wealth, and elves, the traditionally free-spirited, commune living species? None at all?

Now, sure, Orc sailors would be hard to distinguish from humans. I mean we humans are known for never building cities, living our lives entirely upon the open waters, relishing in the struggle against mighty storms and... oh wait, those things are pretty distinct from how the majority of humanity lives, isn't it? Huh.

And yeah, none of the species are locked in. Might have something to do with that whole "multiverse" thing. I mean, when you have an infinite number of worlds, it would only make sense that everything is exactly identically the same between them right? Oh wait, its the opposite of that.

 

[Maxperson]

the exact same qualities you need for stealth


I left it off because I looked at several definitions and not all included it

“quick and exact either in movement or thoughts“

nimble

1. quick and exact either in movement or thoughts: 2. quick and exact either…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Quick movements are anti-stealth. You move slowly when being stealthy. Nimble is not stealth.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Oh no. A strength bonus? How terrible. And they used to be so distinct with their +1 strength more than Humans. It completely made them play entirely differently. I mean a variant human could take a feat and start with a 17 strength, and an orc could start with a 17 strength and have racial abilities. It was so obviously different from each other.
/s

And they aren't complimentary, they lead to different styles of play. All orcs are going to lean into endurance and not going down, regardless of the situation. Humans are going to lean into having the correct tool for the correct job. Yeah, orcs lost Powerful Build, that doesn't mean that they are now impossible to contrast with humans.



Why would I bother looking at Warhammer? Warhammer uses a completely different game system than DnD 5e? You may as well say "But look at Star Trek".

Ah yes, I see. Completely and totally different.



I mean, I could believe you that you need to put back things Wizards took out... or I could believe Wizards in what they wrote.





I mean, I am sure you have some deeply compelling evidence that all of this information, included in the playtest version of One DnD, and reflecting a new style and approach of the Species, while including the "of many worlds" information that WoTC repeatedly said were in the PHB isn't going to be included right? Something that really sells the idea that these two species will be bland, tasteless mush that is utterly impossible to tell apart?

Something other than "Elves are not longer proficient in longswords and dwarves are no longer proficient in battleaxes!!!" Right? Maybe some evidence that ANY of the lore for ANY of the settings has changed?



You can't imagine any possible comparisons between dwarves as merchants, with their focus on laws, number, and wealth, and elves, the traditionally free-spirited, commune living species? None at all?

Now, sure, Orc sailors would be hard to distinguish from humans. I mean we humans are known for never building cities, living our lives entirely upon the open waters, relishing in the struggle against mighty storms and... oh wait, those things are pretty distinct from how the majority of humanity lives, isn't it? Huh.

And yeah, none of the species are locked in. Might have something to do with that whole "multiverse" thing. I mean, when you have an infinite number of worlds, it would only make sense that everything is exactly identically the same between them right? Oh wait, its the opposite of that.

You are on a roll with sarcasm today.

 

[Yaarel]

Looking at the ethnic diversity of the species illustrations, I feel WotC should aim to represent the US demographic. America is the main customer base, and customers should hopefully be able to see images that they can self-identify with. Plus, America is highly diverse − one American can be so different from an other American − so there can be significant outreach to Nonamerican customers around the planet.

For historical reasons, the US has odd official ethnic groupings. As of the 2020 census, "Non-Hispanic White Americans" are about 58% of the US population. This means that White males are about 29% of the population, actually a minority.

This means in D&D, when we see images of 10 human-appearing Humanoids, we would only expect to see about 3 White American males. 7 wont be this.

Because a fantasy setting heightens the presence of the statistically less typical, there may only be 2 White American males per 10 persons. And this would be a normal expectation.

All images of any human identity group need to convey dignity, heroism, visual appeal, and so on.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah, sorry about the confusion.

And yes, what annoys me is that the MotM/AAG elves were actually a a good power level, so you new PHB elves feel like a step backwards both in power and in unique design elements. (Not that three teleporting elves were all the original to begin with).

I hope I have the correct person who was making this point, in that the Astral Elf was more powerful because their Starlight Step was not a spell, so you could bonus action teleport and still cast a spell.

The new rules revealed in the Treantmonk PHB review actually do address this. The only limit on multiple spells per turn is that you can't cast multiple spells that take a spell slot per turn. This means that since the High Elf teleport is without using a spell slot, that limitation is gone.

Now, I do forget if they can only do it once per day, or if it is multiple, but I did want to bring it to your attention, since this was a major concern of yours.