Project Sigil Project Sigil Updates: D&D's 3d Virtual Tabletop

D&D's 3D virtuial tabletop.
dnd_sigil.jpeg


Project Sigil is the upcoming 3D VTT from WotC. From various Gen Con reports --
  • Creative Mode lets you prep on the fly or modify pre-made content
  • Assets from Baldur's Gate 3 are included, such as the characters as digital miniatures
  • Minis have multiple poses but are not animated
  • Spells are animated though
  • Uses Unreal Engine 5 (or 4, I've seen different reports)
  • Launch on PC, mobiles and consoles later
  • Closed Beta this fall--sign up here
  • DDB subscribers will have greater access

sigil_builder.jpg

This is the 'creative mode' toolbox, apparently!
 

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Gee... I wonder why... * looks at WotC's trackrecord the last 25 years *
Look, we can all stick our head in the sand and pretend the last 25 years of WotC software program/services didn't happen, but that's just foolish imho.

Or we could stop re-writing history.

4e's online tool was fantastic at the end. Like truly excellent. I get a lot of people didn't like 4e, but at the end of that run they had a very good, useful tool for use with that game.

5e's online tool is fantastic. DnDBeyond is an excellent set of tools.

So sure, you can pretend 3es failure to develop the promised software, and Gleemax, are representative of WOTC's digital efforts. But the other half of their efforts, the more recent half of their efforts, have been excellent.
 

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Why would you want to move from Foundry? IF you want 3D in your D&D VTT, there's 3D Canvas from theripper93 already. And if WotC/Hasbro ever decides to pull the plug (again) on their 3D VTT your left with nothing, with Foundry they can pull the plug and you can still run whatever version you're running (and have backupped)... That's the reason why I went with Foundry in the first place, that and the enormous community support. AND there is official D&D support as well. So why leave it?
Because 3D is not the main draw for me. When the WotC VTT product was first announced, I was led to understand that it would have support for the game systems rules. That it would handle applying AOE, saves, damage, and tracking effects. THAT is what would make it more pleasant for me to run D&D in a VTT.

I ran D&D 5e in Foundry for about five years. I could never get to a satisfactory level of automation in Foundry. I've participated in paid games to see how professional DMs set things up. I've set up meetings with 5e DMs to see how they configured things. I've spent countless hours testing and troubleshooting various community mods. The more work I put into it the more the long tail of issues keep popping up. So I eventually just gave up on the automation.

Regarding 3D Canvas by TheRipper93, I do greatly like and appreciate his mods and have thrown money his way, when I did play around with 3D Canvas a bit, it just seemed like too much of a hassle to deal with. To be fair, it didn't spend a lot of time with it.

If and when I go back to running D&D, at this point, I would likely just use D&D Beyond. If the holy grail of a VTT that supports and automates the rules doesn't exist, then I'm happy with the functionality of DDB Maps, its character sheets, and encounter builder.

My current Warhammer Fantasy game will likely take me well into 2025 and I'm also backing Ember by the Foundry team. Unless the WotC VTT blows me away with how it will make my life as a DM easier and more enjoyable, I'll probably run Ember after Warhammer.
 

If it's "information" that you want we could literally quote from the Hasbro Monetization Designer job posting "D&D DM & player experience to make sure player value comes first."I do not feel that is the best mindset to take with what is effectively a gm tool but the marketing for ithst tool appears to have been doing so from the start
ooh, WotC will be charging for the products they are creating, how dare they… you will need a little bit more than that
 

I guess it sounds like rules integration is being an issue with this version of the VTT like others. I guess I'd just suggest trying out an option like Foundry. I have only run some test battles with their 5E integration, but I see a lot of the stuff that is in the PF2 version, which is entirely phenomenal.
I don't know what the 5E designers over at Foundry are going to do once the books and 5.5 officially launches, but if they are able to get to where they are with PF2, it will be incredible. The PF2 game I run (with PF2 having many more fiddly bits to it) is about 95% automated. I don't see any reason why 5E won't be similar.
It seems like, once again, the designers have spent a lot of time on the look and feel and the 3D aspects that make a VTT look great, when you really want it to handle the details of playing the game. At least I do.
Definitely interested to see how this works out of course, since my group might adopt it entirely if they get it to work.
Its impressive what the PF2 fan community has done with the PF2 game system in Foundry.
I'm currently running Warhammer Fantasy in Foundry using the official Cubicle 7 game system for Foundry and it has been great. It has its rough edges and the interface could use some tweaks to make it easier, but it has been a much better experience than running D&D in Foundry.
Now that Foundry has an official license for D&D, it will be interesting to see if they greatly improve the mechanical support for running the game versus just having official content.
It'll likely be half a year or more before I think about running a fully D&D campaign again. Hopefully by then the various VTTs platforms will have matured their D&D2024 support and worked out the bugs.
 

It looks pretty from the screenshots, but I'm going to be harsh here: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

In the last 25 years WotC (Hasbro) has imho produced one good product of tech/software and that is Magic the Gathering: Arena. Everything else was either absolute crap or they threw in the towel way too early. Imho the reason that DDB is relatively popular is not because it's so good, it's because people don't have another choice...
This is plenty condescending. I've been using DDB for more than five years. It's excellent! It saves me a ton of time, and is extremely intuitive to use. It also lets me share all of my books with my players.That 7 bucks is the best entertainment value in my budget, by far!

Also, there are lots of other choices. Roll20 is one example, but it is WAY harder to use than DDB. Not to mention that you can still play with pencil and paper.

Millions of people aren't using DDB because we just don't know any better or have other options.
 

When a company tries to make a new software/services ecosystem (what WotC is doing here) there needs to be trust, because you're not buying a product you can use independently, you're paying for a 'live' service, if the company stops the 'live' service, you can't use it anymore. You can have spent hundreds if not thousands on such a 'game' with everything you 'own' going poof without anything you can do about it. Almost 50 5e books @$30 each, almost $1500 right there, subscription? Another $400 over the last 7 years... Then you have the potential to buy a TON of 3rd party stuff as well, all directly linked to DDB. And what exactly happened to D&D Insider for 4E? Is that still available? What is going to happen to DDB when the eventual D&D 6e hits? When is that ever going to happen? Another 10 years, what if sales aren't as good as they were and 'corporate' sees an opportunity to do a 6e early and kill off everything, so they can sell you everything again? It's not as if WotC doesn't deserve to have it's business model and potential new future products held to the light.
So much misinformation here.

First off, everything I've purchased on DDB is available to me right now on my phone because you can download copies of anything you want, and I have. So it could shut down tonight and I would still have all of 5e and my third party content. So much for that hypothetical.

When new releases supplant old ones on DDB, the old ones don't go anywhere. They are labeled "legacy content," you can access them whenever you like, and you can toggle them on or off.

WotC has publicly stated that they are sticking with 5e and letting it slowly evolve, and all D&D books will continue to be supported by DDB. So your hypothetical about a 6e is /shrug. Frankly, it seems like the standard arguments folks make about what they see as the pitfalls of purchasing digital content. But I'm pretty good with having content to all of D&D and a huge suite of tools for playing it for $7 per month, just as I'm good for getting access to basically all of music through my Apple Music subscription.
How exactly is that different from a DM scratchbuilding his own terrain, building/paint his miniatures and players doing the same thing? Or how much time do you think some DMs spend on good 2D maps? Self made adventures, etc. It's not different. But just because some DMs do this, does not mean everyone does this. And this is also true for building 3D scenes, it requires skills that the average DM doesn't have, it requires quite a bit of dedication and time to do it yourself and to do it right. Just converting a published adventure (like Vecna Eve of Ruin) to a (Foundry) VTT module takes a TON of time, and that's without having to make any of the resources (like encounters, the adventure, maps, tokens, etc.). Making anything beyond basic 2D maps also takes a TON of time, especially when you want the maps to have a consistent artstyle throughout the adventure. If you then start adding things like audio, effects, and new images to the mix the rabbithole is very deep...
As someone who has painted thousands of miniatures and builds elaborate sets using Dwarven Forge and everything else, but also sometimes runs games using the current map builder on DDB, I am assuming that the advantages of the VTT will be time, scope, and money.

In order to have enough miniatures and terrain to build most of the options I want, I have invested thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars over many years. Now that's a rabbit hole. One I have freely chosen, but even bad VTT will pale by comparison. A good VTT can give players access to a version of all my analogue stuff for a fraction of the cost and effort.

Presumably, this VTT will automate most of the task, the same way the current 2d map tool does on DDB. That really is incredibly easy to use, and does in fact include all of Vecna: Eve of Ruin and many other adventures. If the promised VTT does a poor job then I imagine it won't succeed. If it does a good job but is too time consuming and technical, it might succeed as a niche option, like Foundry. Time will tell.
 

As someone who has painted thousands of miniatures and builds elaborate sets using Dwarven Forge and everything else, but also sometimes runs games using the current map builder on DDB, I am assuming that the advantages of the VTT will be time, scope, and money.
As someone else with a large collection of minis and Dwarven Forge, I'd like to amend your list of VTT advantages to "time, scope, money and storage space" :cool:
 

I used to spend hours setting up detailed maps in roll20, and it was fun and rewarding. It was also expensive... I bought lots of tokens and props all the time, and made a lot of my own, too. It was a meta-hobby.

Then the pandemic hit, and I was permanently tired. I "discovered" I could slap a pretty 2D background on my screen and put circle tokens on it, everything changed. We traded tactical detail for theater of the mind and more RP... and we also gained the ability to play 3 times more often (and I saved money, too). The irony is not lost on me: that's exactly how we used to play back in the Stone Age. It was fun then, and it's fun now (go figure).

Anyway I see this VTT and I want it, but I worry it'll send me through another loop of "builder first, DM eventually."
 



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