D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Oofta]

Well you implied I have been telling people not to support what they want. Absolutely not the case.

I see said the blind man. It was thinking of the OP.

 

[Oofta]

I don't want them to fail. I'm just not interested in personally helping them succeed, and I'm annoyed that everything bends in their direction. They have nothing I want.

Maybe things wouldn't bend in their direction as much for you if you didn't spend so much time on a forum dedicated to the current edition of D&D.

Because outside of these forums, I have no idea what kind of influence you're talking about. I mean, I have complaints about professional sports that I don't care about but if we didn't spend exorbitant amounts of money on stadiums with taxpayer dollars that never, ever, pay for themselves and a couple other issues I wouldn't care.

 

[Remathilis]

The '80s were also great, for mostly the same reason. I'd take the smaller hobby as a worthy sacrifice for a healthier, more diverse and varied one.

I think it's worth noting that part of the reason the RPG market was healthier back then was there was a lot less competition from other types of gaming. Video game RPGs were in their infancy, CCGs roared onto the scene in the mid to late 90s. MMOs in the late 00s. People who tire of D&D won't just move to a different RPG, they can move to all manner of gaming to scratch that Fantasy Itch. Which is why the market feels smaller and more WotC dominated; because people who tire of D&D are more likely to leave the TTRPG ecosystem than they are to find a niche RPG that better suits them.

 

[CleverNickName]

I think it's worth noting that part of the reason the RPG market was healthier back then was there was a lot less competition from other types of gaming. Video game RPGs were in their infancy, CCGs roared onto the scene in the mid to late 90s. MMOs in the late 00s. People who tire of D&D won't just move to a different RPG, they can move to all manner of gaming to scratch that Fantasy Itch. Which is why the market feels smaller and more WotC dominated; because people who tire of D&D are more likely to leave the TTRPG ecosystem than they are to find a niche RPG that better suits them.

You forgot the most common option: Folks who tire of D&D can make their own game, using the D&D rules. It's been done for countless games: Star Wars, Esper Genesis, Pugmire, Stargate, Godbound...

5E D&D isn't just a single game. It's also a very robust and flexible rules framework, and it's free to use in the Creative Commons.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Maybe things wouldn't bend in their direction as much for you if you didn't spend so much time on a forum dedicated to the current edition of D&D.

Because outside of these forums, I have no idea what kind of influence you're talking about. I mean, I have complaints about professional sports that I don't care about but if we didn't spend exorbitant amounts of money on stadiums with taxpayer dollars that never, ever, pay for themselves and a couple other issues I wouldn't care.

I want to talk about TTRPGs (design, theory and practice), and my experience and inclination is for D&D (all editions) and D&D-adjacent games. Given that anywhere I go in the community looking for those things I will find the vast majority of discussion revolving around WotC, where do suggest I go?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think it's worth noting that part of the reason the RPG market was healthier back then was there was a lot less competition from other types of gaming. Video game RPGs were in their infancy, CCGs roared onto the scene in the mid to late 90s. MMOs in the late 00s. People who tire of D&D won't just move to a different RPG, they can move to all manner of gaming to scratch that Fantasy Itch. Which is why the market feels smaller and more WotC dominated; because people who tire of D&D are more likely to leave the TTRPG ecosystem than they are to find a niche RPG that better suits them.

The market doesn't feel smaller (it very much isn't). It does, however, feel much more WotC dominated than it ever did before. That's what I wish was different.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You forgot the most common option: Folks who tire of D&D can make their own game, using the D&D rules. It's been done for countless games: Star Wars, Esper Genesis, Pugmire, Stargate, Godbound...

5E D&D isn't just a single game. It's also a very robust and flexible rules framework.

And that is wonderful! I'm less concerned about tons of different rulesets (although that is great variety too, and I'm all for it) than I am about one publisher using their soft power to squeeze the industry.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I want to talk about TTRPGs (design, theory and practice), and my experience and inclination is for D&D (all editions) and D&D-adjacent games. Given that anywhere I go in the community looking for those things I will find the vast majority of discussion revolving around WotC, where do suggest I go?

Something to consider is that over half the people who participated in the poll I created in the other thread don't feel like WotC much impacts their enjoyment of D&D. If you're noticing a lot of WotC talk mixed in with any D&D discussion, it might be coming from the minority of 4 - 5s on the poll.

I think it's totally possible to talk about D&D without having to talk about WotC. But it means purposefully not replying to folks who do bring up WotC constantly, or steering the conversation towards things I actually want to discuss.

EDIT- whoops I got mixed up between threads!

 

[Micah Sweet]

Something to consider is that over half the people who participated in this poll don't feel like WotC impacts their enjoyment of D&D. If you're noticing a lot of WotC talk mixed in with any D&D discussion, it might be coming from the minority of 4 - 5s on the poll.

I think it's totally possible to talk about D&D without having to talk about WotC. But it means purposefully not replying to folks who do bring up WotC constantly, or steering the conversation towards things I actually want to discuss.

For purposes of what I'm talking about, WotC and 5.5 are basically the same thing. There are lots of great topics that apply to all D&D-adjacent RPGs, or all fantasy RPGs, or all RPGs in general, but the vast majority of those topics are filtered through WotC's latest edition, so if I want to engage, that's where I have to go.

 

[Neonchameleon]

It does not benefit the gaming community to continue putting money and attention into a now-lackluster, poorly managed, corporate-owned system.

It's IMO far more deserving of success than D&D 2014 where the problem wasn't the malice of the corporate overlords but e.g. pandering to the RPG Pundit.

And the laziness of the designers where there were abilities that seemed to be written without even a thought towards play (Assassin, Beast Master) or were just phoned in (at least a quarter and probably half the Warlock invocations).

But 5e did succeed. This is more deserving.

So what is another option? From what I have seen, the DC20 system blows D&D away

Dude, the system is literally called DC20 and advertises itself with a d20. It's got real fantasy heartbreaker energy - with almost all the centralising problems of D&D

There are lots of other options - but when I go to the DC20 website literally the first bullet point is "Fresh but Familiar 5e Feel". If you'd even pitched Matt Colville's Draw Steel I'd have had some sympathy but this even pitches itself as a knock-off. There are a thousand games which demonstrate more vision and deserve more to succeed