D&D 5E (2024) Saving Thow importance changed. Strength is now a valuable save

[UngeheuerLich]

Grapple

• Constrictor snake = Str save
• Crocodile = Auto-grapple and restrain on a hit
• Giant Crab = Auto-grapple on a hit

Also:

Prone

• Boar = Auto-prone on a hit
• Brown Bear = Auto-prone on a hit
• Dire Wolf = Auto-prone on a hit
• Elephant = Auto-prone on a charging hit (and it can then do a Dex save trample as a bonus action)
• Elk = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Giant Goat = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Mastiff = Auto-prone on a hit
• Tiger = Auto-prone on a hit made with advantage
• Warhorse = Auto-prone on a charging hit
• Wolf = Auto-prone on a hit

Restrained

• Giant Spider = Dex save

Frightened

• Lion = Wis save
• Quasit = Wis save

Poisoned

• Pseudodragon = Con save
• Quasit = Auto-poisoned on a hit

Charmed

• Sprite = Auto-charmed on a hit

So out of the various creatures in the PHB that apply conditions, only one requires a Strength save. There are at least a dozen on the above list that no longer require a Str save.

I think this was a bad decision. Especially when topple mastery needs a hit and a save by default.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think this was a bad decision. Especially when topple mastery needs a hit and a save by default.

I guess it’s supposed to speed up combat a bit by removing two-stage resolution, but yeah, I don’t really like it. I’ll probably still allow players to save against these effects.

 

[pukunui]

I think this was a bad decision.

There are a number of "simplifications" they've made to monsters that I'm not sure will be good decisions in the long run. The changes made to spellcasters (so they no longer use spell slots) is already annoying enough.

But comparing the stats for the creatures in the 2024 PHB and their 2014 versions, I can see a number of changes that I see no reason for them to have made. Like why are zombies no longer proficient in Wisdom saves? Why do skeletons and sprites no longer have their armor listed in their AC?

Especially when topple mastery needs a hit and a save by default.

It's also interesting that Topple requires a Con save rather than a Str save.

I guess it’s supposed to speed up combat a bit by removing two-stage resolution, but yeah, I don’t really like it. I’ll probably still allow players to save against these effects.

Same. I have a feeling I won't like a lot of the 2024 monsters and will end up still using some of the older monsters. I still sometimes prefer to use spellcasters with statblocks, for instance. (I sure hope that the 2024 DMG has guidelines on how to modify the new spellcaster NPCs because ever since MotM, it's been a bit of a guessing game.)

 

[Charlaquin]

There are a number of "simplifications" they've made to monsters that I'm not sure will be good decisions in the long run. The changes made to spellcasters (so they no longer use spell slots) is already annoying enough.

But comparing the stats for the creatures in the 2024 PHB and their 2014 versions, I can see a number of changes that I see no reason for them to have made. Like why are zombies no longer proficient in Wisdom saves? Why do skeletons and sprites no longer have their armor listed in their AC?

Zombies lacking Wis save proficiency is probably to make them more vulnerable to being Turned. The rest of these are head scratchers for sure though.

It's also interesting that Topple requires a Con save rather than a Str save.

That is a very odd choice as well.

Same. I have a feeling I won't like a lot of the 2024 monsters and will end up still using some of the older monsters. I still sometimes prefer to use spellcasters with statblocks, for instance. (I sure hope that the 2024 DMG has guidelines on how to modify the new spellcaster NPCs because ever since MotM, it's been a bit of a guessing game.)

I prefer the new NPC/monster casting style, but I get why a lot of people don’t like it as much.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But how often will DMs bother to have enemies push or grapple via Unarmed Strike when they can just use monsters that can push or knock prone automatically on a hit?

I reckon there will be overall fewer Str saves happening as a result but I’ll wait to see for myself.

That’s going to depend entirely on how the DM likes to play, and if they like to use human (ish) enemies with pseudo class levels, or monsters.

Which goes for a lot of things. You can’t really say “this is more” or “this is less” because it depends on what the DM chooses to throw at the players.

 

[pukunui]

Zombies lacking Wis save proficiency is probably to make them more vulnerable to being Turned.

All it functionally did was cancel out their penalty so when they made a Wis save, it was +0 instead of -2.

 

[pukunui]

Which goes for a lot of things. You can’t really say “this is more” or “this is less” because it depends on what the DM chooses to throw at the players.

There are categorically going to be fewer Strength saves built-in to monster statblocks in the 2024 MM.

But you’re right, we can’t say for certain whether DMs will compensate for that by having more monsters initiate grapples or shoved via Unarmed Strikes.

I doubt that I will, so in my games, Str saves will likely still be in the weaker tier of saves.

 

[Minigiant]

It's also interesting that Topple requires a Con save rather than a Str save.

You fall from the shock not the push.

It's a It's a crumple not a trip.

 

[SkidAce]

I think a proper test for this, is to give the giant eagles a sword and a shield.

 

[Charlaquin]

View attachment 380422

Godrick’s experiments in grafting hardly seem like a fair test of if a creature has hands!