Rings of Power is Back [+] Appreciation

[ART!]

As many here probably know, Tolkien really struggled with this issue of "are orcs people?" I think by the time LOTR was published, he already had qualms. As a Christian and Catholic, free will was a big deal for him. I think at some point he viewed them as irredeemable - twisted too much and to under a dark lord's thrall to do anything with but put out of their misery, at best.

 

[OB1]

One of the things I like about this series is largely a break from the Peter Jackson movies (I loved 3/6 of them) and the novels: Orcs are people.

They're not necessarily nice people and Adar is probably still a villain, but making them something more than anonymous hordes whose only goal is to conquer, eat hobbits and not get beat up by the Uruk-Hai has been welcome.

Every orc on The Rings of Power has a personality — just ask the folks who made them

Plus who they consider “the most fascinating character” to design

www.polygon.com

Yes, this has been great! It feels like where they are going with this is that the Orcs will be fully enslaved/ensorcelled by Sauron (exactly what Adar fears) and that is why they end up being the way they are depicted by Jackson's work. Makes it a bit of a tragedy, IMO.

The other thing I'm loving watching is Sauron's failures, and how he adjusts. Failure along the journey is just as important for antagonists as protagonists, and prequels in particular tend to forget about that, making the story feel flat.

I'm hoping that The Stranger reveal in Ep 8 works as well as Sauron's reveal did last season. It was such a slick piece of character development for Sauron to show how great a deceiver he is, and set up his doing the same thing to Celebrimbor this season. My sense is that the choice that The Stranger makes between the staff and his friends is what will actually define who he is. IE, he isn't actually Gandalf the Grey until he decides to rescue the hobbits (at least that's where I'm guessing this is going, could be that he picks the staff and ends up becoming Saruman).

 

[ART!]

Literally the conversation that derailed the other thread. Let's not.

That's why I made a point of saying I had no problem with it, but agreed.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm hoping that The Stranger reveal in Ep 8 works as well as Sauron's reveal did last season. It was such a slick piece of character development for Sauron to show how great a deceiver he is, and set up his doing the same thing to Celebrimbor this season. My sense is that the choice that The Stranger makes between the staff and his friends is what will actually define who he is. IE, he isn't actually Gandalf the Grey until he decides to rescue the hobbits (at least that's where I'm guessing this is going, could be that he picks the staff and ends up becoming Saruman).

I'm looking forward to him picking up an axe instead and transforming into Thorim.

 

[ART!]

Yes, this has been great! It feels like where they are going with this is that the Orcs will be fully enslaved/ensorcelled by Sauron (exactly what Adar fears) and that is why they end up being the way they are depicted by Jackson's work. Makes it a bit of a tragedy, IMO.

We were talking about RoP before our weekly game a couple weeks ago, and I was the only one who had seen that weeks ep. I said something like "well, it's not going great!" (for the characters), and someone said "No?", to which I responded "I don't know if you're familiar with the trajectory of the 2nd Age, but it's mostly not great!"

One of the things Tolkien deals with really well is the value of hope in the face of seeming hopelessness, and I think that's really powerful.

The other thing I'm loving watching is Sauron's failures, and how he adjusts. Failure along the journey is just as important for antagonists as protagonists, and prequels in particular tend to forget about that, making the story feel flat.

It's interesting to see which things he learns from - i.e. becomes emboldened by - and which things he simply cannot understand, which will eventually trip him up. He doesn't understand friendship, and Durin sees right through him.

I'm hoping that The Stranger reveal in Ep 8 works as well as Sauron's reveal did last season. It was such a slick piece of character development for Sauron to show how great a deceiver he is, and set up his doing the same thing to Celebrimbor this season. My sense is that the choice that The Stranger makes between the staff and his friends is what will actually define who he is. IE, he isn't actually Gandalf the Grey until he decides to rescue the hobbits (at least that's where I'm guessing this is going, could be that he picks the staff and ends up becoming Saruman).

I like that Tom's edict of "choose your friends or your destiny" is pretty obviously (to us) a trick question.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's interesting to see which things he learns from - i.e. becomes emboldened by - and which things he simply cannot understand, which will eventually trip him up. He doesn't understand friendship, and Durin sees right through him.

His interactions with Celebrimbor also underscore Celebrimbor's pride, or even hubris.

"Hi, I'm an angel that's here in disguise to help you do your greatest work" should not be greeted with "that checks out; no further questions."

People have been blowing smoke up Celebrimbor's butt -- Galadriel does it in this most recent episode -- for thousands of years, and he's clearly lost the ability to evaluate whether over the top praise like "God has chosen you personally to save the world, but don't tell anyone" makes any kind of sense.

To me, it's clear the RoP team understands where Tolkien's characters are deeply flawed, even if Tolkien's text never makes that explicit. Elven superheroes (including all of the prominent elves in RoP) having a pride issue makes perfect sense.

 

[Deset Gled]

They're not necessarily nice people and Adar is probably still a villain, but making them something more than anonymous hordes whose only goal is to conquer, eat hobbits and not get beaten up by the Uruk-Hai has been welcome.

Adar (this season) has been a great character. The scene where he is parlaying with Galadriel and Elrond is probably my favorite "Sauron the Deceiver" scenes (even though he's not in it). You have three characters who all have the exact same goal: defeat Sauron. And yet, they will battle each other instead of working together. Even though they are willing to sacrifice anything to achieve that goal; in many ways, it is their willingness to sacrifice their own resources that prevents them from cooperating.

The lingering question after that meeting: is it Sauron's influence that prevents them from working together, or is it their inability to cooperate that leads to Sauron's success?

 

[Zardnaar]

So Saurons a charismatic type corruption right? But he is basically a fallen angel right?

And his mere presence can turn someone into a worm tongue? Along with his artifacts eg the ring wraiths?

 

[Lidgar]

Just watched E7. Continue to love how they portray Sauron and his subtle use of manipulation and power. Was very cool seeing how he was also controlling the guards (and who knows who else). The cruelty was deep, including having Celembrimbor shove his assistant off the wall. Ooof.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, this has been great! It feels like where they are going with this is that the Orcs will be fully enslaved/ensorcelled by Sauron (exactly what Adar fears) and that is why they end up being the way they are depicted by Jackson's work. Makes it a bit of a tragedy, IMO.

With the idea that they could have found a path to redemption had Adar made different decisions. They had free will, and used it to make the wrong choice.

I'm hoping that The Stranger reveal in Ep 8 works as well as Sauron's reveal did last season. It was such a slick piece of character development for Sauron to show how great a deceiver he is, and set up his doing the same thing to Celebrimbor this season. My sense is that the choice that The Stranger makes between the staff and his friends is what will actually define who he is. IE, he isn't actually Gandalf the Grey until he decides to rescue the hobbits (at least that's where I'm guessing this is going, could be that he picks the staff and ends up becoming Saruman).

Given that the Eregion plotline is heading for a Sauron victory, I think they have to end on a note of hope, and the Stranger making the right choice and not becoming Saruman.

It occurred to me that Gandalf says "into the East I do not go". Not "I've never been East". Maybe he does some deal with the Dark Wizard to never return to the East?