Spoilers Rings of Power is back!

[Deset Gled]

When I was in my 8000s I was pretty much the same as when I was in my 5000s.

Yeah, but that's just because you were going through a middle-earth crisis.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Well that's the entire point! How does Elrond go from so against the rings to actually become a ring bearer in the 3rd age? Tune in to find out!!!

Oh, I have absolutely no problem with characters changing.

I do, however think that it's fair to criticize this show for some of its portrayals. In the particular case of the question I posed (while otherwise praising the show) was that I can't fathom why anyone would ever wear those rings after what's happened. I suppose they were careful to make the Elf-Rings "Sauron-Free", and if it's really a matter of the rings saving the elves, I suppose Elrond might reluctantly wear one. We'll have to see.

I see this complaint a lot....how come Galadriel isn't like I saw her in LOTR? How come Elrond is so different?

I think the Galadriel complaint is fair. I like her character quite a bit in the show - but she doesn't seem much like Galadriel - not because of her Adventuring, but because she seems more like an Extrovert who somehow changes over time into an Introvert. The brashness is fine by me - she's young - but it's now what she does, but how she does it, that doesn't evoke the same character.

For me, though, that complaint is nit-picking, not a matter of saying "This Show SUX!" I think it's quite good, but I would say that it could be better. I think that it IS getting better. They are finding their feet, and she seemed more like Galadriel to me this season, than she did last season. She's more thoughtful, in the right sort of ways.

And I mean....those characters have literally aged well....an entire age!!!

Yes, it's a good counter-argument. It's an unfathomably long time between the two.

And they have possessed a ring of power for possibly that entire time. People do change over time....I have friends now in their 40s that I knew in their 20s, and none of them act exactly the same.

I don't think that anyone (remotely worth speaking with, at least) expects the characters not to change. That's a pretty serious mischaracterization of (most) people's complaints. Feel free to disagree with them, but try to at least stay with what they're actually talking about.

 

[TheSword]

Criticism =/= hate. I've seen no one here who seems to hate the show. Dislike, yes. Have criticisms of, yes. Not hate, though.

Sure, hate = hate.

 

[Horwath]

Ha! It wasn't even close to Winterfell bad.

War council at Winterfel.

Jon Snow: Alright. I need a fool proof plan guaranteed to kill off most of our army.

Tyrion: Well, you could stick your army outside of the fortified castle so that they get crushed in-between the army and the walls.

Jon Snow: Brilliant! We need more, though.

Sansa: What if you put the siege engines outside, too. Oh! And you can put them in front of the infantry to make them even more vulnerable.

Jon Snow: I don't know why you have been underappreciated in this show, Sansa. That was great.

Tyrion: Okay. I've been thinking. Stay with me here. What if... What if we took the Dothraki cavalry and stuck them in front of everyone in the pitch black and had them charge blindly out at an enemy that they have no idea of the exact location or when they are coming. It would of course be across uneven ground covered by snow and ice.

Melisandre: And I could come up right before they charge and light their swords on fire, destroying what little night vision they have, rendering them unable to see past the head of their horses as they charge!

Daenerys: Dragons!

Jon Snow: And I think that about closes this up.

yeah, also the dumbest part of Battle of Witerfell is that it happened at winterfell at all.

 

[Eric V]

Some thoughts:

1. I think that characterizing the mountain-knocked-down-by-catapults as anything other than a contrived spectacle used to propel the episode forward is a bit hard to swallow.

• Handily, the river is narrower than in S1
• How is this remotely plausible?
• Why didn't they use this strategy at the outset of the battle?
• Where did the water go?
• Why was the riverbed easily crossable in the aftermath? With siege engines?
• How was it achieved so quickly?
  • If it took a long time (days, weeks) why isn't this passage of time adequately represented?

2. What was Arondir doing for the bulk of the episode, other than just turning up to save Galadriel?
3. What was Gil-Galad doing for the bulk of the episode? Why wasn't he in command?
4. How did Elrond get to Khazad-Dum and back in this time? What exactly was this time?
5. How did the elves arrest their massed charge so quickly?

• You know what would have been cool? Establishing with wide shots that Elven cavalry move like an organic mass on the battlefield - like a murmuration of starlings. But it wasn't.

6. The symbolic chiaroscuro of the elves facing off against the orcs was poorly executed. It would have worked better in an arthouse movie.
7. Why didn't the elves just charge the orcs around Galadriel and bust her out of her cage?
8. What was happening while Elrond and Adar were parleying? Was there a ceasefire or did the battle rage on? It seems like the siege just kept going.
9. Why didn't Adar (or other orcs) just kill Elrond?
10. Why did the pin-cushion elf archer have to be inserted as a Boromir memberberry?
11. Why did Prince Durin turn his whole army round instead of just sending a contingent back to deal with his father, or leading a contingent?
12. Eregion's walls, as noted above
13. Efforts to subvert the symbolism of Gandalf relieving Helm's Deep at dawn by having the Dwarves not turn up were ham-fisted
14. No clear sense of scale of the battle
15. Don't deploy your cavalry into woods, you rookie elf commander
16. What was that stupid siege engine that pulled rocks out of the wall supposed to be? Some kind of sow or boar?

I mean, I could go on...

But.., did you know that Damrod the troll was modelled after Mike from Breaking Bad? I think that's pretty cool.

There's not a single story (movie, book, show) that survives this level of nitpicky questioning. Some are funny (the wall from S1 to S2), and some are just demanding that characters always behave in the most logical "I-know-I'm-in-a-story" way. If everyone everywhere always make the most rational decision, it's not believable.

 

[Zardnaar]

There's not a single story (movie, book, show) that survives this level of nitpicky questioning. Some are funny (the wall from S1 to S2), and some are just demanding that characters always behave in the most logical "I-know-I'm-in-a-story" way. If everyone everywhere always make the most rational decision, it's not believable.

Generally my line is were going with it crosses into absurd.

 

[Horwath]

Generally my line is were going with it crosses into absurd.

I lost it at water disappearing from the river bed and elves charging in inferior numbers at orcs.
by the Valar, just go inside and reinforce the garrison.

 

[MarkB]

I lost it at water disappearing from the river bed and elves charging in inferior numbers at orcs.
by the Valar, just go inside and reinforce the garrison.

They were supposed to be part of a flanking maneuver with the dwarves. Admittedly, confirming the presence of a dwarf army on the field first would have been smart.

 

[Horwath]

They were supposed to be part of a flanking maneuver with the dwarves. Admittedly, confirming the presence of a dwarf army on the field first would have been smart.

I get +2 attack for flanking, right?
DM: there is no one to flank with...
I believe, so I flank.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

If everyone everywhere always make the most rational decision, it's not believable.

If no-one, anywhere ever makes a rational decision, I think the problem is rather worse.

Every character in this show seems to be a moron.