D&D (2024) Thief Rogue / True Strike

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Sure, but then it specifies the actions things are associated with...

Actions lists some objects that use those actions, but you can always free object interact with any object as part of your movement, regardless of anything else that happens.

 

[abirdcall]

Wait, here's a great consequence of this line of thinking.

If I open a door that is magical during my magic action to cast a spell, that magic action now involves a magical object so Fast Hands will allow me to cast the spell as a bonus action.

 

[Mistwell]

Actions lists some objects that use those actions, but you can always free object interact with any object as part of your movement, regardless of anything else that happens.

OK so you move to draw a scroll. You now want to read and activate the scroll. What action is that associated with?

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

OK so you move to draw a scroll. You now want to read and activate the scroll. What action is that associated with?

I don't care about that part, I care about it being said that there is no free object interaction without an action being tied to it. I could've picked up a mushroom for free, my action for the turn has no bearing on it.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't care about that part, I care about it being said that there is no free object interaction without an action being tied to it. I could've picked up a mushroom for free, my action for the turn has no bearing on it.

You could pick up the mushroom as part of something else. Move, Attack, Magic, Utilize, something else.

As we are discussing the specific topic of reading and activating a scroll I do think it's fair for me to ask you what you think the something else is in this particular case.

 

[StitchedSpartan]

Wait, here's a great consequence of this line of thinking.

If I open a door that is magical during my magic action to cast a spell, that magic action now involves a magical object so Fast Hands will allow me to cast the spell as a bonus action.

The Magic Action involved is the act of casting a spell that is allowed by using a spell scroll. If you were not using a spell scroll it would cost material components, a spell slot, or it could even be impossible because you do not know the spell but it is in your class list.

The Wand of War Magic is a passive buff to spell casting. When you cast a spell while holding it you are not casting the spell because of it, it just adds a +1.

A magic door likewise does not directly allow or disallow you to cast a spell. Casting a spell is the Magic Action, and opening the magic door (if you can) is the free object interaction.

 

[abirdcall]

The Magic Action involved is the act of casting a spell that is allowed by using a spell scroll. If you were not using a spell scroll it would cost material components, a spell slot, or it could even be impossible because you do not know the spell but it is in your class list.

The Wand of War Magic is a passive buff to spell casting. When you cast a spell while holding it you are not casting the spell because of it, it just adds a +1.

A magic door likewise does not directly allow or disallow you to cast a spell. Casting a spell is the Magic Action, and opening the magic door (if you can) is the free object interaction.

That is now how Fast Hands works though.

Fast Hands says using a magic item that requires the magic action to use.

Wand of the war mage requires the magic action to use. So by this reasoning it is usable by fast hands.

A spell scroll augments the casting of a spell and so does wand of the war mage. One is usable unlimited times but that doesn't matter for fast hands.

How it actually works is that cast a spell is a completely separate type of magic action than activate a magic item. Just because a magic item is involved in the cast a spell use doesn't mean fast hands applies.

 

[Oofta]

Sure, but then it specifies the actions things are associated with. Weapons are part of the move or attack action. Magic items that require the Magic action are part of the Magic action. Items which specify they require the Utilize action are part of the Utilize action.

A magic item which requires the Magic action includes the free object interaction fort that magic item in the Magic action used with the item. Scroll, Wand, Staff, etc, these all take a Magic action, and the object interaction is part of that Magic action and not separate from it.

Now if you are going to hit someone over the head with your scroll, it is part of your Attack action. But if you're reading it to activate the magic item, it's the Magic action. The action associated with your use of the item is what the "free" action is associated with, but there is always some sort of non-free phase it's associated with.

I quoted the rule, it's clear. It has nothing to do with an attack, it's not an action. You can interact with an object for free once per turn. Chapter 1: Playing the Game, under Combat.

Interacting with Things. You can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe.​

So you could pull a scroll, grab a potion (drinking of course would be a bonus action), pick something up off the floor, any number of things. It has nothing to do with drawing a weapon. You can, of course, draw a weapon as part of the attack but that's a separate thing. I really, really don't know why you're stuck on this.

 

[StitchedSpartan]

That is now how Fast Hands works though.

Fast Hands says using a magic item that requires the magic action to use.

Wand of the war mage requires the magic action to use. So by this reasoning it is usable by fast hands.

A spell scroll augments the casting of a spell and so does wand of the war mage. One is usable unlimited times but that doesn't matter for fast hands.

How it actually works is that cast a spell is a completely separate type of magic action than activate a magic item. Just because a magic item is involved in the cast a spell use doesn't mean fast hands applies.

You cannot use a spell scroll without a magic action, it is an item that requires you to use a magic action which it casts a spell and causes it to disappear, this is not the same thing as “modifying” a spell if it can cast spells you cannot even cast

There is no action involved with a wand, it is a constant +1 if you are holding it

 

[Oofta]

OK so you move to draw a scroll. You now want to read and activate the scroll. What action is that associated with?

Nowhere does it say that you are activating the scroll. You're adding that word in. What the rules stated

Spell Scroll (Cantrip, 30 GP Level 1, 50 GP)​

A Spell Scroll (Cantrip) or Spell Scroll (Level 1) is a magic item that bears the words of a cantrip or level 1 spell, respectively, determined by the scroll’s creator. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast the spell using its normal casting time and without providing any Material components.​

​

and

Use an Object. Take the Utilize action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.​

​

The important thing about spell scrolls is that they specifically state "you can read the scroll and cast the spell using its normal casting time" (bold added). You are still casting a spell. You are not "activating" the scroll. I think of scrolls as being a way to pay the cost of casting the spell ahead of time. Preparing the spell, the possible material component, the spell slot, all of that is contained within the magical symbols on the scroll. Reading the the words of the spell allows you to cast it without any of that.

You are not taking a magic action to use a magic item, you are casting a spell using it's normal casting time. If you were a sorcerer, you could use Quickened Spell to change the casting time to a bonus action. The real exploit with allowing a fast hands to work with scrolls 3 rogue levels and then multiclass into wizard. Cast whatever spell you like off a scroll that you previously scribed which normally takes an action. Then ready a spell to cast another spell on the start of the next creature's turn.

At least that's how I will rule when I DM. Feel free to rule differently.