D&D 5E Subclasses or Feat Trees? Pros and Cons.

[EzekielRaiden]

I've experimented with both as traditions of Magic.

Subclasses seem...easier ...but it's a commitment when starting your character.

I tried having feats as traditions, I. e. Blood Magic, Enchanter, High Magic, Eldar Magic etc. The feats were a chain, 1st feat cast 1st and 2nd level spells marked as Blood Magic, 2nd feat 3rd and 4th level and so on. Maybe a special ability per feat also.

This would let you dabble in a tradition, commit as much or little as you like.

But then I think you could do that by taking x levels of the class/subclass. But that prevents a Fire Wizard from picking up a new tradition (can't wizard/wizard multiclass)

Either way, my thought was the bulk of subclass or feat tree would be provided by unique spells. Abjurerers would get Spell Absorbtion" as feat four or 14th level of the subclass.

Either way has pluses and minuses, I would like the great minds here to PEACH the two concepts if you would, because I need to commit and finish my campaign tweaks.

Thanks in advance, will be out of town tomo but will read replies.

Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly:

The primary source of power will actually be the spell list, not the subclass or feat tree per se. The primary concern you have regarding the use of one vs the other is that subclasses are more straightforward but also more limiting, while feat trees are open but much less approachable. You are committed to doing either "subclass primarily by spell access" or "feat tree that mostly is granting access to better spells." You are not considering other approaches at this time.

Is that correct?

 

[SkidAce]

Just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly:

The primary source of power will actually be the spell list, not the subclass or feat tree per se. The primary concern you have regarding the use of one vs the other is that subclasses are more straightforward but also more limiting, while feat trees are open but much less approachable. You are committed to doing either "subclass primarily by spell access" or "feat tree that mostly is granting access to better spells." You are not considering other approaches at this time.

Is that correct?

That was the OP yes. I was mainly looking for pros and Cons or problems with either approach.

I then thought that having different feats for different level "tradition" spell access would use to many feats. So then I decided feat 1 would give access to the spells, and further feats would add specialized abilities relevant to the tradition.

Still brainstorming. Willing to hear ideas.

My starting point was merely deciding between the two methods and discussion.

 

[Minigiant]

Subclasses
pros:
Easier to balance
Easier to stay on theme.
Easier to manage
Cons
Less flexibility
More gaps in availability archetypes
Feat trees
Pros:
More freedom
Easier to fill all expected archetypes without turns of splats
Cons:
Allows for overpowered or underpowered combinations via compounded choice
Requires more restrictions on individual choices.

 

[Horwath]

That was the OP yes. I was mainly looking for pros and Cons or problems with either approach.

I then thought that having different feats for different level "tradition" spell access would use to many feats. So then I decided feat 1 would give access to the spells, and further feats would add specialized abilities relevant to the tradition.

Still brainstorming. Willing to hear ideas.

My starting point was merely deciding between the two methods and discussion.

95% of current subclass abilities can be written as full feats or half-feats. Mostly half feats.
So I'm all for it to be feat trees.

So just add a feat slot at levels 3,6,10,14,18.

 

[NaturalZero]

Man, the problem is that they made 5e the worst version of DnD (or Pathfinder) to make feat trees a viable mode of customization. It's just too stingy with handing them out.

Personally, I almost always homebrew with subclasses or alternate class features. Effectively, alternate class features (ala Tasha's) are a sort of hack that let you sneak stuff in without having to be married to a subclass or hoping a player starts picking a feat chain by level 12 after their main ability is maxed. For example, I wanted Strength monk to viable. Instead of forcing players to wait until 3rd level for a sub or till 12th level for a feat, I made Iron Body an alternate class feature that swaps in for Unarmored Defense. Str + Wis for AC and "Fast Twitch" swaps Dex out for Str on Initiative rolls.

This might not work as well on every class, obviously. The wiz, for example, doesn't have a lot of core class features outside of the generic spell list.

 

[SkidAce]

I just realized that my feats will need "Add a +1 to your spellcasting attribute..." both to work properly, and to make sure they are appealing enough to choose.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I just realized that my feats will need "Add a +1 to your spellcasting attribute..." both to work properly, and to make sure they are appealing enough to choose.

floating the idea of removing leveling ASI (or at least making it a feat itself and highly restricting the number of times you can take it) and just starting with an enhanced array/point buy, so that characters don't scale in power so much as just expand their proficiencies and known abilities.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

floating the idea of removing ASI and just starting with an enhanced array/point buy, so that characters don't scale in power so much as just expand their proficiencies and known abilities.

I played a few 5e game where we removed ASI from chargen and at 4th/8th/etc.

It went great, I compensated by being generous with magic items and rewards. You could probably do the same by buffing the proficiency bonus to half-level or something.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I played a few 5e game where we removed ASI from chargen and at 4th/8th/etc.

It went great, I compensated by being generous with magic items and rewards. You could probably do the same by buffing the proficiency bonus to half-level or something.

i more meant in the sense that your starting array includes all the ASI you'd expect to have at 16th incorporated into it and you decide what your character is good at the word go.

your method is good too though, just a different approach.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

i more meant in the sense that your starting array includes all the ASI you'd expect to have at 16th incorporated into it and you decide what your character is good at the word go.

your method is good too though, just a different approach.

Oooohh that's a nice idea! So something like 18, 15, 14, 12, 11, 8?

Or plain +5, +4, +2, +1, 0, -1.