D&D (2024) I have the DMG. AMA!

[Micah Sweet]

I think that's something some folks want to believe in order to have a target for their frustration.

Show me proof that Crawford's views are mirrored (not influenced by) the majority of the player base.

 

[TiQuinn]

No, but it speaks to the mindset they (Crawford specifically) have in that the players should have the upper hand over their DM.

Again with the forced adversarial perspective.

And people were telling me this no longer existed.

 

[Xenolith234]

Again with the forced adversarial perspective.

And people were telling me this no longer existed.

I agree with you. There shouldn’t be any adversary at all. It shouldn’t be player vs DM, and never actually is in my games. That kind of statement from Crawford sets up the DM as a problem. The players act, and the world reacts, as it should. Consequences come from the setting, not the DM.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

No, but it speaks to the mindset they (Crawford specifically) have in that the players should have the upper hand over their DM.

It's a collaborative game, not a battle. No one is supposed to have the upper hand.

 

[mamba]

This started by someone claiming that they needed to be able to revoke powers for verisimilitude and religious integrity. I'm not saying that gods can't - but allowing Gods to do this in setting is an explicit worldbuilding choice by that DM if they can and one that works against the real world religions we have.

it’s a world building choice, agreed. I do not see it working against real world religions at all however. Since none of them can point to anything to say ‘see, this is how it actually works’ I would ignore them all when it comes to how religions work in a fantasy world. I’d base it on mythology instead of church doctrine

 

[Remathilis]

I (as a 40+ dude) have to wonder if the target Demographic even has context for the more 'Old Testament' version of Gods. Its certainly not taught in school anymore, and unless ones household is traditionally religious, I just wonder if kids today even understand the more 'God fearing' interpretations.

Greek myth, with it's deities who punish Arachne, Narcussis, and Orpheus, are still taught in schools.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They can be encouraged by rules though.

Like ones that give thme ammunition to use against the players through their characters with a perfect 'that's what my character (the god) would do' justification.

Players who never want anything negative to happen to their PCs no matter what they do can also be encouraged by the rules. IMO they have been.

 

[tetrasodium]

Is that actually in the DMG or is it rage bait?

The DMG that actually talks about things like how the gm can't take away divine powers for going against a cleric's god and how the bastions are off limits to the gm? That kind of disregard for the GM is reflected in those kinds of restrictions that only function to make it difficult for a reasonable gm to pull those kinds of strings while they do nothing to stop the kind of bad DMs you and a couple others keep bringing up from being bad DMs.

It's a lot easier for the GM to give players something good that they might not normally have than it is to take it away or harm it when that's been marked as off limits.

 

[TiQuinn]

Show me proof that Crawford's views are mirrored (not influenced by) the majority of the player base.

What proof could I possibly show you, other than the basic idea that a company tries to incorporate feedback from its customers and create products their customers like.

 

[TwoSix]

If you're right, wouldn't any evolution of it from its OSR roots back in the day to what is now also have been inherently flawed? Why is one style good, and another bad?

The answer, as always, is personal preference.

Neither is good, nor bad, they're merely different. But some things can be more appropriate or more fitting for the needs of the current and future player base.

There are two different avenues of disagreement here.

1) I disagree with you aesthetically that gods controlling the font of divine power makes for a more compelling or coherent setting.

2) I disagree with you conceptually that the player base would be better served by providing a menu of disparate cosmology options in the DMG. My opinion could be biased by my agreement with their choices of what to present, but I feel like I would still support their decision even if they had presented a cosmology less to my liking.