D&D General A glimpse at WoTC's current view of Rule 0

[hawkeyefan]

The issues arise because there's a great many players out there (including me sometimes, to be honest) who if given the opportunity can and will drift from using the ability to add elements for the latter bolded point to instead using it for the former, and maybe not even realize it.

The solution is to not provide the opportunity in the first place.

No. That's a solution. Not the solution.

 

[Micah Sweet]

For me, a natural model or comparison for RPGs is serial fiction.

But even in a novel, it might be possible to start writing without knowing the answer. Notoriously, JRRT didn't know who Strider was when the character was first written onto the page - or at least that's my understanding.

So as a GM, I could introduce some mysterious place or being, pique the players' interest, and then - via subsequent prep, or in the course of play, as makes sense given system and context - establish answers to questions as required and appropriate.

For me, stories and games are different things, and I'm not interested in using the rules of narrative in play. Different strokes strikes again!

 

[hawkeyefan]

I love worldbuilding more than any other gaming activity, and greatly enjoy describing the world in a consistent way and playing the NPCs appropriately, so yes, I feel immersed.

So how is it that you can find immersion when you're DMing and creating the world actively before and during play, but if you do even a tiny bit as a player, your immersion breaks?

 

[Lanefan]

Exactly. The players should know whether they can petition a god for favors or not. If it's been established that it has never worked for anyone they can always try but shouldn't be surprised when there is no answer or the answer is no. If you can petition a god in a campaign they should have at least a vague idea of how it works because you've added a house rule to the game. I think players should be aware of all house rules.

While I kind of agree with this sentiment, it's mighty hard to be aware of house rules that don't exist because there's not as yet been any need to make that ruling.

I mean, if this is the first time in the whole campaign that someone's gone after direct divine intervention there's probably no rule in place yet to govern such an attempt (e.g. the DM might not have even considered the idea that someone would have the cojones to try this) and thus everyone's operating in the dark.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The implication of this seems to be that the gods are silent to all those other people in the world praying to them.

It is not. But whatever direct blessings they might grant them, I would expect it to be far less than what a first level cleric can get. And of course the gods can work through their chosen, so giving a cleric magic, which they in turn use to help the people, is a way for the god to help the people.

And like I said it in your thread touching on this topic about two years ago, I have actually considered how this works on Artra, and I have a mechanic for representing this and it has been used in my campaign.

 

[Lanefan]

Probably a few more details, like general ambience and how many people are there.

And if one of those details is "You seem to be the only patron in the place at the moment" then the action declaration "I punch the nearest guy in the face" doesn't hold much water...unless you're attacking the bartender, I suppose.

If I tell you there's 3 dozen patrons, and you ask me to describe them all, I'm not going to be super happy.

Me neither, particularly if those descriptions are asked for in detail. But if I say there's three dozen people in the pub I'll likely be asked for some basics e.g. "Are any of them Hobbits?" or "Do any of them look like a threat to us?"; and that's fair enough.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So how is it that you can find immersion when you're DMing and creating the world actively before and during play, but if you do even a tiny bit as a player, your immersion breaks?

Because the player has a different role than the DM? To me the player's role is to explore and otherwise interact with the setting exclusively through the ability and knowledge of their PC. That is player immersion. I know you have heard this from me many times.

 

[Lanefan]

I find that the rare times I've had players push, the rest of the players will shut it down with a simple, yeah, dream on.

My experience is that while sometimes the other players will shut it down, more often they'll either support the one doing the pushing or just get out of the way; if only because what's advantageous for one player (or character) might end up being advantageous for all.

 

[Oofta]

And yet:

Almost as if different people have different preferences and expectations!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So how is it that you can find immersion when you're DMing and creating the world actively before and during play, but if you do even a tiny bit as a player, your immersion breaks?

This is such a wild thing to say, and increases my suspicion that a lot of people do not even have the sort of immersion I mean when I talk about it in context of RPGs. Immersion that I mean really is not a GM thing in the first place.