Elon Musk Calls for Wizards of the Coast to "Burn in Hell" Over Making of Original D&D Passages

Elon Musk, the owner of the app formerly known as Twitter, is calling on Wizards of the Coast and its parent company Hasbro to "burn in hell" for the publication of Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons. On November 21st, former gaming executive turned culture warrior Mark Hern posted several passages from Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons on Twitter, criticizing the book for providing context about some of the misogyny and cultural insensitivity found in early rulebooks. These passages were pulled from the foreword written by Jason Tondro, a senior designer for the D&D team who also worked extensively on the book. Hern stated that these passages, along with the release of the new 2024 Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide for D&D's "40th anniversary" (it is actually D&D's 50th anniversary) both "erased and slandered" Gary Gygax and other creators of Dungeons & Dragons.

In response, Musk wrote "Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets to trash E. Gary Gygax and the geniuses who created Dungeons & Dragons. What the [naughty word] is wrong with Hasbro and WoTC?? May they burn in hell." Musk had played Dungeons & Dragons at some point in his youth, but it's unclear when the last time he ever played the game.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets to trash E. Gary Gygax and the geniuses who created Dungeons & Dragons. What the [xxxx] is wrong with Hasbro and WoTC?? May they burn in hell.

- Elon Musk​

Notably, Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons contains countless correspondences and letters written by both Gygax and Dave Arneson, including annotated copies of early D&D rulesets. Most early D&D rules supplements as well as early Dragon magazines are also found in the book. It seems odd to contain one of the most extensive compliations of Gygax's work an "erasure," but it's unclear whether Hern or Musk actually read the book given the incorrect information about the anniversary.

Additionally, Gygax and Arneson are both credited in the 2024 Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide. The exact credit reads: "Building on the original game created by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson and then developed by many others over the past 50 years." Wizards of the Coast also regularly collaborates with Gygax's youngest son Luke and is a participant at Gary Con, a convention held in Gygax's honor. The opening paragraph of the 2024 Player's Handbook is written by Jeremy Crawford and specifically lauds both Gygax and Arneson for making Dungeons & Dragons and contains an anecdote about Crawford meeting Gygax.

Musk has increasingly leaned into culture war controversies in recent years, usually amplifying misinformation to suit his own political agenda.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

First off, I don't see this as a trial of Gygax.

No. But it is an evaluation of evidence--and the repeated insistence, from several people in this thread (including you!) that pretty much everything we could possibly talk about is really:

• hyperbole/sarcasm, and thus worthless because he doesn't actually mean what he's saying
• "taken out of context," without any explanation for the context that could possibly make these statements make sense
• "uncharitable," without any explanation for why a statement like "Damn right I'm a sexist" merits charity
• "trying to provoke a response" (which is a deflection I genuinely don't understand...being intentionally provocative on a very sensitive subject IS being offensive, no?)
• coming from historians, biographers, or third parties, who thus "couldn't know him" the way "friends and family" did--because apparently only the evaluations of friends and family are valid (a premise that has never been defended in the thread, just asserted ex nihilo)

We simply have a disagreement over what some of these quotes are saying and over the conclusions drawn in the foreword.

No, we do not. We have a disagreement about what is even possible to talk about. We have a disagreement about whether it is even possible to criticize someone at all. That's the problem here. That's why you are getting SO much pushback against your polite and mild-mannered words. It is entirely possible to be polite and mild-mannered...and still uncivil.

There is no reason for us to be uncivil over that. I feel like I have been cordial with you and given you genuine, honest responses. Would you really prefer that I shift into an uncivil tone and respond more aggressively? (to me that sounds like a miserable way to interact with a poster who hasn't done anything wrong to me)

You have used polite words. I don't believe that that is the same as having a civil conversation. A civil conversation requires that both sides actually respect the rules of reasonable discussion. Deflecting 99.99% of evidence because "well maybe he was being sarcastic/hyperbolic" or "well YOU never knew him personally so you can't judge" or "you don't know the context, maybe he didn't mean it that way" is violating the rules of reasonable discussion.

One side is allowed to reject all evidence for any reason or indeed no reason at all. The other side apparently must just...put up with that? That's not a civil discussion.

I would very much like to HAVE a civil discussion. One has not been forthcoming thus far. A civil discussion requires that both sides recognize reasonable limitations on discussion. Two of those reasonable limits are that you cannot just write off every possible piece of evidence for light and transient reasons, and that you cannot shift the goalposts by (for example) bringing up that Gygax was a good husband and father, which is completely irrelevant to whether he wrote rules/text that was sexist or expressed beliefs that were sexist, and instead re-framing the discussion as "was sexism the most important part of Gygax?" or "Was any sexism Gygax evinced overcome by other good things he did?"

Again we just disagree. And to my earlier point, I have said several times I tend to agree with Heidi Gygax's assessment, which isn't to say the man is pure or blameless (I think there are places where you see sexism, I think that sexism is easy to understand in the context of when he was born and the conditions of his life, and I believe there is a more complex picture to paint of him than to fixate on his more thorny exchanges). Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. You can't insist people agree with you and then when they don't say they are being uncivil

I don't demand that people agree with me. But I will call out unfair, biased, unreasonable control of discussion when I see it. The constant reaching for literally ANY excuse, no matter how flimsy, to explain away Gygax's behavior is unfair, biased, and unreasonable. It is deciding from the word go that Gygax's heroic image must be protected at all costs. It's deeply frustrating to see that happen, particularly because I see it over and over and over and over in all sorts of places.

I have, more than once, asked why positive threads never get requests for "nuance" but negative ones do. Are you willing to answer that question? Or would you prefer to ignore it?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If they won't say it, I will:

You realize that for approximately 35% of humanity currently recognizes the Bible (in one form or another) as their holy text. That's not a question, it's a presumption, because I genuinely do not believe you couldn't be aware that Christianity is one of the most widely-held religions on Earth.

You further realize--again, I presume--that that 35% of humanity considers the Bible (in one form or another) an extraordinarily important, necessary, and indeed sacred document, which contains both a diverse array of profound wisdom, and extremely important guidance for life, in both moral judgment and pragmatic judgment. They of course vary on exactly how important it is, but the vast majority of them consider it one of the most important documents ever written.

So, to claim that there could not, even in theory, be something applicable about a section of the Bible, to anyone ever in the present day, is pretty blatantly dismissing fundamental religious beliefs of approximately 35% of humanity. (Arguably more, if you consider that the Qur'an recognizes many of the Judeo-Christian prophets, including Jesus albeit not as Messiah, they just see the Qur'an as the superseding enlightenment, if you'll pardon the incredibly lame law pun.) "I don't see how your holy text could be even remotely applicable to modern-day people" is not exactly a positive or friendly stance to take.

People are allowed to have different opinion than you, and even criticise your position, and demanding them to shut up and show respect is basically what the Gygax apologists are doing here.

 

[Steampunkette]

Having re-read that section. I think we have gone back and forth on these points already. You clearly state your position in an organized way, but I don't think it is helpful for me to weigh in again on those thoughts (which again doesn't mean I am ignoring your post, I just think it is fine to leave you with the last word on that part of the argument)

Ah, yes, the part of the thread where we talked about Jen Wells... that was page... um...

... Huh. Woops. Looks like we never did.

Also I was wrong. It wasn't 2 weeks it was 3 days.

"I also suspect, but am not positive" that Gary Gygax in his 30s had a 19 year old woman he'd never met sleep over at his house for 3 days and being a 19 year old woman had a lot to do with it.

YOU DON'T SAY.

And then hired her and gave her none of the guidance he promised to get her to produce work he could use. He had 3 days with her in his house assuring her he'd teach her, but once hired just didn't bother.

Gosh. I wonder why that could be from a man who was an admitted sexist.

She even felt like the "Token Female" because they didn't give her any training. That's a whole other level of messed up.

Anyway. Yeah. Lot and lots of evidence he was a sexist scattered around the history of TSR.

 

[FrogReaver]

I find the fact that it is being called going out of his way interesting, I see no reason for that

If I recall the story correctly, it wasn’t just her coming to his office for an interview and then being hired. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

People are allowed to have different opinion than you, and even criticise your position, and demanding them to shut up and show respect is basically what the Gygax apologists are doing here.

I did not do that. I explained how someone responding to a Bible reference with "your 2000+ year old story is irrelevant" is pretty disrespectful, which is what the person in question was asking about (that is, why anyone could find that sentiment disrespectful.) I make no comment for or against the Biblical story itself nor whether it was effective or ineffective as a rhetorical argument. Just that writing off the entire sacred text of a religion purely because it's very old is disrespectful to that religion. Regardless of which one! I would feel the same way if someone had dismissed a reference to the Ramayana or the Lotus Sutra or the Tao Te Ching.

 

[FrogReaver]

Ah, yes, the part of the thread where we talked about Jen Wells... that was page... um...

... Huh. Woops. Looks like we never did.

Also I was wrong. It wasn't 2 weeks it was 3 days.

View attachment 387021
"I also suspect, but am not positive" that Gary Gygax in his 30s had a 19 year old woman he'd never met sleep over at his house for 3 days and being a 19 year old woman had a lot to do with it.

YOU DON'T SAY.

And then hired her and gave her none of the guidance he promised to get her to produce work he could use. He had 3 days with her in his house assuring her he'd teach her, but once hired just didn't bother.

Gosh. I wonder why that could be from a man who was an admitted sexist.

View attachment 387022

She even felt like the "Token Female" because they didn't give her any training. That's a whole other level of messed up.

Anyway. Yeah. Lot and lots of evidence he was a sexist scattered around the history of TSR.

I think you are imputing that story with alot of your personal biases.

 

[FrogReaver]

So... few things.

1) His tirade about sexism was not "Sarcasm". At the very -least- there's no evidence it WAS sarcasm since his whole "Women don't belong in gaming" schtick continued on 'til 2004 at the earliest and may have made it through the last few years of his life. There's good evidence he was sexist the entire way through.

A man that truly believed women didn’t belong in gaming hired a woman as a game designer and tried to teach his 3 daughters how to play. That’s hard to square for me. Definitely some nuance going on there.

 

[Steampunkette]

I think you are imputing that story with alot of your personal biases.

It's definitely possible.

It's also much more likely that I'm synthesizing a bunch of evidence that supports Gary Gygax being a garden variety sexist. Like the fact that he went to Hollywood and reportedly spent a lot of cash on cocaine and sex workers while constantly carrying a firearm.

Which we know 'cause of the whole FBI investigation into him that included making sure he wasn't the Unabomber...

A man that truly believed women didn’t belong in gaming hired a woman as a game designer and tried to teach his 3 daughters how to play. That’s hard to square for me. Definitely some nuance going on there.

It's -almost- like opinions aren't invented out of thin air and a few token pieces of information are generally required to create a life-long belief.

He cites the fact that his daughters didn't like D&D in the long term as an explicit example of women not liking D&D in the post on this very forum, FrogReaver. Indicating that his failure to get them to love it from the start is part of why he came to the foolish, and sexist, belief that women just can't derive inner satisfaction from D&D like men can.

There's not much nuance going on there.

And then hiring a pretty 19 year old to sit around in the office with 0 training and watch for chicks in bikinis also doesn't require a ton of nuance, either.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

A man that truly believed women didn’t belong in gaming hired a woman as a game designer and tried to teach his 3 daughters how to play. That’s hard to square for me. Definitely some nuance going on there.

He hired her, and then left her high and dry....where her primary functions were secretarial and "girl alerts."

Whatever nuance was going on here, it doesn't take much examination to show that that nuance was not necessarily positive nuance.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

A man that truly believed women didn’t belong in gaming hired a woman as a game designer and tried to teach his 3 daughters how to play. That’s hard to square for me. Definitely some nuance going on there.

For sure. Interesting too his foreword about Mary playing D&D with Bob from the office does not sound like an enforced boys’ club either…

if Gygax observed that mainly men were interested at some point in his musings…it may have been an empirical observation. And maybe a biased sample…but not perhaps ill intended.

These discussions are like projective tests. We discount what family and friends say and cling to an unverified one off account from a person with a negative view or vice versa.

May as well just ask people what team they are on…

I like Gygax and his work from
What I know. I like much of the new content and creators. If a disclaimer helps people get things published…or provides history…

Whatever. All interesting. I might want to pick up the book but I probably wont get the vapors and disown the games icons or anything.