The older i get the less I need.

[Thomas Shey]

I’m not really a comic book guy so I don’t run Supers. I just don’t feel like I have enough of a handle in the genre tropes.

If I did it would probably be something closer to street level heroes and I think the SWADE Super Powers Companion would handle that just fine. Even something like Wildcards I think could be done with either GURPS or SWADE.

There is a SWADE setting called Titan Effect that mixes powers with modern spies that I’ve played around with and it worked out pretty well. Super soldiers and spies vs same and psychic beasts.

I was curious since use of SW in supers is the commonest genre were I hear stories were it goes on the rocks, and I think I understand why (but it'd be a big side trip to go into it) and I was curious if your experience was different. If I'm remembering Titan Effect properly (I know I own it, but its been long enough since I read it I'm not sure to what degree the problem I'm thinking of is relevant) it might not be an issue there.

 

[thullgrim]

I was curious since use of SW in supers is the commonest genre were I hear stories were it goes on the rocks, and I think I understand why (but it'd be a big side trip to go into it) and I was curious if your experience was different. If I'm remembering Titan Effect properly (I know I own it, but its been long enough since I read it I'm not sure to what degree the problem I'm thinking of is relevant) it might not be an issue there.

SWADE Supers is firmly grounded in mechancal effects. You might define the trappings but there’s a number attached to them that means something. From my very limited knowledge and experience the feeling I get from most Supers systems is the higher the degree of power or the more you are co-mingling various degrees of power differentials, the less deftly the rpg systems are able to deal with it.

Narratively focused Supers games don’t have the same mechanical constraints issue. If you are Superman you are as strong as the scene needs you to be.

Supers games experts correct me if I’m wrong.

Personally I’m more likely use a Super Powers Companion or GURPS Powers to build vampires for Nights Black Agents or describe mutations than I am to run a full on super hero game and so I view those supplements as toolkits for a variety of things rather than just how to run comic book hero’s.

 

[Thomas Shey]

SWADE Supers is firmly grounded in mechancal effects. You might define the trappings but there’s a number attached to them that means something. From my very limited knowledge and experience the feeling I get from most Supers systems is the higher the degree of power or the more you are co-mingling various degrees of power differentials, the less deftly the rpg systems are able to deal with it.

Narratively focused Supers games don’t have the same mechanical constraints issue. If you are Superman you are as strong as the scene needs you to be.

Oh, I'm only in a mild way in the narrative end of things for supers. I was a Champions guy for decades. My observation is that there's some intrinsic problems with open-ended die rolls when you're rolling 5 or 6 D6 in SW.

Supers games experts correct me if I’m wrong.

Personally I’m more likely use a Super Powers Companion or GURPS Powers to build vampires for Nights Black Agents or describe mutations than I am to run a full on super hero game and so I view those supplements as toolkits for a variety of things rather than just how to run comic book hero’s.

And the problem I'm talking about will likely be much less there (since super-strength in SW is normally represented by flat bonuses in damage).

 

[Reynard]

Oh, I'm only in a mild way in the narrative end of things for supers. I was a Champions guy for decades.

I'm a old time Champions GM, too, but learned to love M&M, especially 2E with Ultimate Power.

 

[payn]

I never liked supers at all in TTRPGs. Then, I tried some PbtA and it clicked.

 

[Reynard]

I never liked supers at all in TTRPGs. Then, I tried some PbtA and it clicked.

I find it interesting, even if a little confusing, that supers seems to be a common line for some people as it relates to traditional versus narrative games. Oddly (or ironically) I totally get it for horror games.

I suspect it is about formative experiences and especially preferred genres.

 

[payn]

I find it interesting, even if a little confusing, that supers seems to be a common line for some people as it relates to traditional versus narrative games. Oddly (or ironically) I totally get it for horror games.

I suspect it is about formative experiences and especially preferred genres.

I tend to have old school taste with a new school sensibility. I liked my fantasy/sci-fi/horror to be like average folks doing and surviving awesome things. They are heroic becasue they face danger and survive it, not because they are powerful and can face danger with no sweat at all. So, supers was anathema to my preference. I mean, sure you could pop them into generic systems, but it just doesnt feel right to me at the table.

Now, exploring the narrative of what being a super means to the character and the setting? Thats far more interesting to me than tactical combat or survival sim mechanics. Those things just didnt focus correctly on what interested me. Keep in mind im more of a watchmen/doom patrol kind of guy as opposed to Superman/Thor kind of guy too.

 

[Reynard]

I tend to have old school taste with a new school sensibility. I liked my fantasy/sci-fi/horror to be like average folks doing and surviving awesome things. They are heroic becasue they face danger and survive it, not because they are powerful and can face danger with no sweat at all. So, supers was anathema to my preference. I mean, sure you could pop them into generic systems, but it just doesnt feel right to me at the table.

Now, exploring the narrative of what being a super means to the character and the setting? Thats far more interesting to me than tactical combat or survival sim mechanics. Those things just didnt focus correctly on what interested me. Keep in mind im more of a watchmen/doom patrol kind of guy as opposed to Superman/Thor kind of guy too.

I don't subscribe to the notion that narrative or storygame mechanics inherently mean the game or campaign will have a better story than a game played with a more traditional RPG.

 

[payn]

I don't subscribe to the notion that narrative or storygame mechanics inherently mean the game or campaign will have a better story than a game played with a more traditional RPG.

I certainly dont either, I just find traditional/generic games have way too much mechanical baggage for Supers; for me of course. I dont want to focus on Superman going from level 1-20 (I dont even know what the hell that looks like?) I dont want to shoot eye beams at Zod and hit his AC and force him to make a saving throw to knock out some of his HP type combat tactics. I also dont want to fight a thousand mooks as superman becasue that is not interesting to me from what I want to focus on in the super genre.

 

[Staffan]

I don't subscribe to the notion that narrative or storygame mechanics inherently mean the game or campaign will have a better story than a game played with a more traditional RPG.

Depends on your definition of "story", I guess. You can certainly get satisfying stories from traditional mechanics. I still remember the Pathfinder game where I one-shotted* a dragon by getting a lucky triple-damage crit after using Smite Evil on it (with Smite Evil adding 3x your level to damage on the first attack against an evil fiend, undead, or dragon, so the attack did something like 3x(1d8+35)). That kind of thing is satisfying precisely because of its randomness and rarity.

But cold, hard numbers rarely cooperate with narrative arcs. They particularly don't cooperate well with "softer" values, unless those values are also given cold hard numbers (e.g. using Willpower as a metacurrency in various Storyteller games, or using relationships).

For example, let's say one party member is under the logn-term influence of an enemy telepath/illusionist, and has been made to see the the world as an antebellum plantation and the party as rebellious servants/slaves who need to be punished and slain, or at least brought to heel. Another party member has been in a long-term relationship with this character, and challenges the telepath to a psychic duel... which he, not being particularly good at that kind of thing, loses badly. When dealing with a "cold numbers" system, that's it. He lost, it's over, they're done.

But since the GM is running a more narrative system, the mind-controlled PC says "Hey, I just saw my lover brutally killed in the mindscape. Could I maybe get a new roll to resist and add our relationship strength?". The GM agrees, and she succeeds in breaking free of the control, and turn the tables on her erstwhile master and his allies. That's the kind of thing you generally don't see in a more traditional RPG.

* Technically, the dragon was somewhat wounded from a previous encounter in which we drove it off, but still.