D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[Oofta]

Oofta had said previously that this is a conversation about D&D, and D&D doesn't have such 'tokens'.

About the closest D&D comes is inspiration. But even that just increases your odds of success.

EDIT: ninja'd

 

[Xetheral]

Why would the rules of the game be metagame? This is a usage that I persistently fail to understand. The rules of the game seem pretty definitively to be game.

I think it's because the word "game" is particularly fuzzy in English. Looking up the word in multiple dictionaries gives a huge range of definitions.

When it comes to views of TTRPGs, I think some posters are viewing the "game" being played analagously to Collins definition 1:

...an activity or sport usually involving skill, knowledge, or chance, in which you follow fixed rules and try to win against an opponent or to solve a puzzle.

Under this view, the "game" being played in a TTRPG is the chosen set of rules, and so awareness of and considerations of those rules can definitionally never be "metagame" in the sense of being "outside the game".

By contrast, I think other posters are viewing the "game" being played analagously to Mirriam Webster's 2a1:

an activity engaged in for diversion or amusement.

Under this view, the "game" being played in a TTRPG is the activity of fantasy roleplaying, independent of the chosen ruleset. Under this view, it's entirely reasonable for awareness of and considerations of the rules that are perceived as coming at the expense of the primary activity to be seen as "metagame" in the same sense of being "outside the game". Under this viewpoint what is and is not metagaming is going to be somewhat idiosyncratic, as perceptions of where the rules enhance or detract from the game being played will necessarily vary from person to person.

 

[hawkeyefan]

About the closest D&D comes is inspiration. But even that just increases your odds of success.

EDIT: ninja'd

Actually, the closest 5e came was several of the Background Features in the 2014 version. They allowed a player to outright declare something… the presence of food, friendly locals that will help, a criminal contact in a new city, and so on. They were one of the best things about the Backgrounds and one of the most innovative elements of 5e overall.

So of course many groups ignored them or made them subject to DM fiat. And sadly, I don’t think they’ve made the leap to the 2024 5e.

 

[Xetheral]

This is connected to the wargaming origins - it's an individual avatar version of training your squad/battalion/whatever from raw recruits to elite guards. Separating that idea of advancement from the narrow military focus is clever design. Linking it, in a narrative sense, to things like the actual story of Ged's growth from apprentice to wizard (in the Earthsea books), or the implied story of Conan's growth from wandering thief to warband leader to self-proclaimed king (in REH's Conan stories) is also clever design.

The fact that the actual play of D&D - especially in its classic form - doesn't actually produce fiction that resembles either Earthsea or REH Conan, and yet this does not seem to have hurt the game's popularity, is a curious thing to me. It suggests that, at least for many player, trappings of fiction matter more than the deeper content of fiction.

I excerpted this section from your longer post because I wanted to comment on your final inference in particular. I find it fascinating because my natural inference would be almost exactly the opposite: that some players care more about the core essence of the fiction rather than the particular story or literary form. We may have very different views of fiction, storytelling, and literature at a surprisingly base level. Definitely food for thought!

 

[Oofta]

Actually, the closest 5e came was several of the Background Features in the 2014 version. They allowed a player to outright declare something… the presence of food, friendly locals that will help, a criminal contact in a new city, and so on. They were one of the best things about the Backgrounds and one of the most innovative elements of 5e overall.

So of course many groups ignored them or made them subject to DM fiat. And sadly, I don’t think they’ve made the leap to the 2024 5e.

I never agreed with some of the more literal interpretations of the background rules. I have no problem with a PC's backstory having an impact, even a significant one. But no, you were never getting guaranteed success under all circumstances. I'm glad it's gone in the 2024 PHB.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Actually, the closest 5e came was several of the Background Features in the 2014 version. They allowed a player to outright declare something… the presence of food, friendly locals that will help, a criminal contact in a new city, and so on. They were one of the best things about the Backgrounds and one of the most innovative elements of 5e overall.

So of course many groups ignored them or made them subject to DM fiat. And sadly, I don’t think they’ve made the leap to the 2024 5e.

I never used those background features. Not comfortable with players making declarations about the setting like that outside of their PCs.

 

[soviet]

I thought they were one of the best bits of the 2014 PHB! Ah well

 

[hawkeyefan]

Yup. I suppose that’s an example of playstyle over mechanics.

“These background features require me to release some amount of control over the setting and the events of play! Rules be damned, that can’t be allowed!”

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yup. I suppose that’s an example of playstyle over mechanics.

“These background features require me to release some amount of control over the setting and the events of play! Rules be damned, that can’t be allowed!”

It absolutely is a difference in playstyle, sarcasm or no. Both opinions are equally valid.

 

[hawkeyefan]

It absolutely is a difference in playstyle, sarcasm or no. Both opinions are equally valid.

There was no sarcasm in my previous post!