D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

It might be valuable to inform players during the campaign pitch (or session 0) of the effectiveness, or "realism" of non-magical concepts. Eg, communication, contacts, physics etc...

Might help to avoid mis-matched expectations with players, especially those who might assume that their "mundane" character traits (eg, Background features) are grounded in real-world plausibility rather than high fantasy tropes.

I can see some players being cool with that. Be clear to discourage them from relying too much on mundane concepts, rather to encourage them to seek out magical tools and assets. Could be interesting, if that's the goal.

Wanna connect with your contact thousands of miles away? Okay that will be 20 gold and a 2 month wait. Can't wait that long? Do a job for the local Wizard to get this done faster. Or steal that Sending Stone from the temple of Set.

Something like that?

Right,

What really matters is PROPER communication.

A long time ago, I was invited into a campaign - wasn't D&D it was Deadlands.

Emailed the GM and asked what kind of character is appropriate etc.

He emails back that it's a "grounded" campaign with little reliance on magic etc.

Ok, I make a tracker. A guy competent with a gun (Deadlands) but really good at tracking people down, high in all the necessary skills.

First session. I realize EVERY other player has a magic knack, some have 2. there are even 2 harrowed in the party (basically magic possessed undead). I start to suspect the GM may have been a bit off in his description.

First session is nothing much, we wander into a murder mystery, ends with we need to find the perpetrator.

2nd session, OK great. I'll use my tracking skills to track the perp down. Except come to find out, the perp used magic to COMPLETELY cover his trail, no one remembers him and tracking is "impossible" because the perp used some kind of magic dust to cover his tracks (The GM reluctantly revealed this after I rolled ungodly high, several exploding dice, on a tracking roll) - so my characters signature skill set has been completely shut down by magic. Other characters use their magic knacks to better effect.

The sessions did not improve from there. I made a polite exit from the campaign.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I think often we confuse the two. Obviously some mechanics support a playstyle better than others but you can do a lot of playstyles with a game like D&D.
Personally, I would argue that D&D is actually pretty restrictive--and 5e is a lot less open than many people think. I've heard from plenty of people who find it deeply frustrating for both classic old-school gaming (it largely defangs survival and logistics, it's much too high-magic, the extreme fragility of the first couple of levels fades too quickly, characters grow too fast, gold is plentiful but lacks for effective things to spend it on unless the DM invents stuff mostly from whole cloth, etc.) and more contemporary styles too.

I think I've been playing my playstyle in D&D all the way through 3e and into 4e. I've really never played a different playstyle.
I find that very curious. How would you describe that playstyle?

Mechanics though have changed greatly. And I realize that most of my deal breakers are mechanics. I can usually fit my playstyle onto the game if the mechanics aren't objectionable in some fundamental way.
That's all well and good--for you. The bigger problem is that this isn't nearly as true for several other playstyles. For example, folks whose playstyle relies on the survival-and-logistics stuff, or folks looking for "story now" play, or folks wanting well-tested game balance so that they feel reasonably challenged but not punished by BS.

So in my view, D&D being the flagship 2nd favorite game of so many people, should provide the least objectionable mechanics possible because their fans will force fit their playstyle onto flexible mechanics. I think WOTC hasn't always chosen that path.
Contrary position: D&D should provide multiple different options that are all well-developed and full-throated, so that different groups can develop their preferred playstyle within that space. Instead of moving toward absolute smoothness and unobjectionable non-commitment, move toward commitment to multiple distinct flavors that are actually well-developed.

This really isn't nearly as hard as many folks like to characterize it. It's still a challenging task (any well-made game design should be at least somewhat challenging to make!), but it's quite achievable. A rigorously balanced (which DOES NOT MEAN absolute diamond-perfect 1:1 parity on everything, for God's sake!!!) combat and skill system core, with 13A-style "Nastier Specials" rules for DMs that want to play on the wild side or spice up their encounters. Rules that iterate on 4e's Skill Challenges, which act as an optional structure for non-combat encounters to help make them more textured, rather than being so purely "DM says"-driven if that's what the group wants. "Novice level" rules plus 13A-style "incremental advance" rules, alongside a separate but complementary gritty-survival rules module (that curtails over-use of magic to obviate survival/logistics challenges). Page 42-style "here's how to give meaningful rewards for improvised actions" rules, alongside useful reference tables for common world-elements and how they would be expressed in the rules, such as skill DCs for various actions/materials/etc., methods for developing reasonable and cohesive communities or geographic regions, and comprehensive advice on how to run the world as something self-consistent and rational, a set of rules to be puzzled out to their logical conclusions (and how to address it if you run into a logical conflict with something you've developed.) Maybe, if there's space, some text about different approaches to roleplay and what the rules both can and cannot do with regard to those approaches (e.g. the place of "reskinning" things).

This would easily cover the vast majority of preferred playstyles. Folks who want a grim-and-gritty game where you grub for every single advantage because the rules are always against you until you bend them to your will have Nastier Specials, Novice levels, incremental advances, and the survival module. Folks who want high-flying awesome narrative action heroics have the rigorous core, skill challenges, improvisation rules, and (possibly) the roleplay-and-rules advice. Folks looking for simulationist puzzle-solving have a robust skill system, world-development rules, and advice on how to address issues when established patterns produce problematic results.

Add in some examples of "legacy" rules (such as GP=XP) as opt-in stuff, and you're pretty much golden.

Now, of course, I've just described a TON of design work. That's...sort of the point. You're designing a game system. It's going to be an effort, and it's going to require a hell of a lot of testing and refinement. But it's entirely achievable, especially by the biggest names in the business.
 


This is exactly what I meant by looking for reasons to say no, or looking for reasons to make the feature useless.
I mostly said this to point out that the mailbox approach is not what the feature describes

If the DM is going to do this - then the best route is to instead just not allow the feature in the first place. Use the new backgrounds that have eliminated all of these features in favor of purely mechanical (mostly feat) bennies.
I am perfectly fine with not using that background as written…
 

This why I prefer adding the culture metric, like Level Up uses.
I fully backed &ran level up for about a year I guess it was. In a lot of ways I liked it better than 5e, but the amount of spreadsheets played by shameless minimizers masquerading as complex individuals wielding tired roleplay vrs rollplay arguments to get the benefits of that spreadsheet in any given situation while ignoring the downsides was unreal and led to me burning out on running it.

With new systems coming out like dc20 draw steel and maybe∆ dagger heart I think that it's imperative for wotc to swallow the bitter pill and put out some unearthed arcana/phb2/combat& tactics type books that put supporting GMs as their primary goal over providing players with cool new power creep toys.

I'd almost consider tossing in time of battle book of 9swords in there too but we just saw that with the 2024phb and I think that it pretty much doubled down on too much of 2014 for that to be a credible option

∆havent really been trying to follow it too closely
I’d argue their background is not criminal when they turn to crime in their 50s.
Me too and I'm sick of needing to fight that kind of fight with players who want to double dip while being told that it's a skill issue where the gm should say no and that if the gm says no they should be raked over the coals for saying no too often instead of being creative when met with the oh so deeply skilled "I reach out to my contracts".
 

In fact we know the answer to this already. The player chose the background that says 'you have access to a network of criminal contacts' rather than something like an orphan or a craftsman etc.
No. The PC is not both 16-18(a common age for 1st level rogues with that background) and 50 with an extensive career of network building simultaneously. We don't know the answer to that question until we see what age the player wrote down on his sheet. And I can count on 1 hand(maybe I'd need to go to my second hand) the number of PCs I've seen in the last 40 years who started at age 50 or higher.
 


No. The PC is not both 16-18(a common age for 1st level rogues with that background) and 50 with an extensive career of network building simultaneously. We don't know the answer to that question until we see what age the player wrote down on his sheet. And I can count on 1 hand(maybe I'd need to go to my second hand) the number of PCs I've seen in the last 40 years who started at age 50 or higher.
?
The age is irrelevant. Are you saying your players choose backgrounds that don't reflect their actual background?
 

Is this the feature?

"You have a reliable and trustworthy contact who acts as your liaison to a network of other criminals. You know how to get messages to and from your contact, even over great distances; specifically, you know the local messengers, corrupt caravan masters, and seedy sailors who can deliver messages for you."
Yes. So your PC falls through a strange portal and ends up on Athas. Who is he going to know or be able to contact that will be able to get a message from Athas to another world? Especially when leaving Athas is like leaving Ravenloft.
 

No. The PC is not both 16-18(a common age for 1st level rogues with that background) and 50 with an extensive career of network building simultaneously. We don't know the answer to that question until we see what age the player wrote down on his sheet. And I can count on 1 hand(maybe I'd need to go to my second hand) the number of PCs I've seen in the last 40 years who started at age 50 or higher.
I'd bet a cocktail that the majority of those PCs were wizards in the days that gave extra points of int too :)
 

Remove ads

Top