D&D General How Often Should a PC Die in D&D 5e?

[prabe]

I find it odd that some players would want their characters to be immune from death yet 5E has the most death friendly Ress spells of any edition.

Revivify is a 3rd level cleric spells and by the time heroes are that level 300GP is fairly trivial. Plus if your DM is so set on keeping them alive, scrolls etc of Revivify can be sold or found.

If the players see their characters as protagonists in a story, why wouldn't they expect their characters to have at least as much protection fro actual death (plot armor) as protagonists in a novel or movie or TV show?

If you want to argue the players shouldn't see their characters thus, I'm not inclined to disagree all that hard: I think those sorts of expectations miss the differences in the media. It is, however, a different point than you seem to be making.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If the players see their characters as protagonists in a story, why wouldn't they expect their characters to have at least as much protection fro actual death (plot armor) as protagonists in a novel or movie or TV show?

If you want to argue the players shouldn't see their characters thus, I'm not inclined to disagree all that hard: I think those sorts of expectations miss the differences in the media. It is, however, a different point than you seem to be making.

I would definitely make the point that they shouldn't see their PCs are protagonists in a story, at least in the playstyle I prefer.

 

[prabe]

I would definitely make the point that they shouldn't see their PCs are protagonists in a story, at least in the playstyle I prefer.

Well, the first word of my post was "If," and I did at least imply that the medium should affect one's expectations. I'll say that explicitly: The medium (novel, movie, TRPG, whatever) should matter tor your expectations of it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If the players see their characters as protagonists in a story, why wouldn't they expect their characters to have at least as much protection fro actual death (plot armor) as protagonists in a novel or movie or TV show?

If you want to argue the players shouldn't see their characters thus, I'm not inclined to disagree all that hard: I think those sorts of expectations miss the differences in the media. It is, however, a different point than you seem to be making.

That is the sort of plot armour I as a player do not want. Sure, the PCs are the main characters, but sometimes you might end up being Boromir, Tasha Yar or Robb Stark. And that you can't guarantee that you'll make it will make the peril more exiting and the victory more sweet.

YMMV an all that, but I don't think this is particularly uncommon sentiment, and I think rather fitting one for a game with such a big focus on combat.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well, the first word of my post was "If," and I did at least imply that the medium should affect one's expectations. I'll say that explicitly: The medium (novel, movie, TRPG, whatever) should matter tor your expectations of it.

Indeed. And in a game where we use rules and randomisers it is part of the deal that we will not have complete narrative control. We willingly invoke these rules and mechanisms, and allow them to impact the story we are telling. And that this is happening is not a bug, it is a feature.

 

[prabe]

Indeed. And in a game where we use rules and randomisers it is part of the deal that we will not have complete narrative control. We willingly invoke these rules and mechanisms, and allow them to impact the story we are telling. And that this is happening is not a bug, it is a feature.

Story--including expectations like plot armor--is best as an output, not an input.

 

[Chaltab]

Story--including expectations like plot armor--is best as an output, not an input.

See this makes as little sense to me as giving PCs protagonistic plot armor or having a desired deaths-per-level quota, but the opposite direction. Both those are the DM trying to force the story to go they way they want it.

But the players also contribute. You don't get a story out unless you put story in. Otherwise it's just words on a character sheet amassing loot because numbers go up brrr.

 

[prabe]

See this makes as little sense to me as giving PCs protagonistic plot armor or having a desired deaths-per-level quota, but the opposite direction. Both those are the DM trying to force the story to go they way they want it.

But the players also contribute. You don't get a story out unless you put story in. Otherwise it's just words on a character sheet amassing loot because numbers go up brrr.

I don't see what you saw in my post/s that indicated the players wouldn't contribute. No one has any stories pre-written, the story of the game emerges from playing the game.

 

[DarkCrisis]

If the players see their characters as protagonists in a story, why wouldn't they expect their characters to have at least as much protection fro actual death (plot armor) as protagonists in a novel or movie or TV show?

If you want to argue the players shouldn't see their characters thus, I'm not inclined to disagree all that hard: I think those sorts of expectations miss the differences in the media. It is, however, a different point than you seem to be making.

Why not just sit around and tell each other a story that each gets to add to without dice?

"An Ogre leaps out and attacks the group!"
"My Ranger fires an arrow at it and hits in the eye!"
"It screams and become enraged."
"My Wizard casts a Fire Bolt and burns his bottom!"
"You guys are doing great! The Ogre hops around patting his singed butt!"
"My Fighter runs over and gives an overhand chop with my axe!"
"The Ogre takes the blow and sags to his knees!"
"My cleric says a blessing before ending the evil Ogres rampage."
"That was great guys and very scary! Now, you are still in the dungeon room!"
"I look for any hidden items!"
"You find a magic potion! It can cure wounds!"
"Lucky, good thing I said I looked for hidden items."
"I look for a hidden door!"
"You don't one, but the window does open onto a terrace."

I mean that would move so much faster and you can all tell a great story together. Why let random dice get in the way?

 

[prabe]

Why not just sit around and tell each other a story that each gets to add to without dice?

"An Ogre leaps out and attacks the group!"
"My Ranger fires an arrow at it and hits in the eye!"
"It screams and become enraged."
"My Wizard casts a Fire Bolt and burns his bottom!"
"You guys are doing great! The Ogre hops around patting his singed butt!"
"My Fighter runs over and gives an overhand chop with my axe!"
"The Ogre takes the blow and sags to his knees!"
"My cleric says a blessing before ending the evil Ogres rampage."
"That was great guys and very scary! Now, you are still in the dungeon room!"
"I look for any hidden items!"
"You find a magic potion! It can cure wounds!"
"Lucky, good thing I said I looked for hidden items."
"I look for a hidden door!"
"You don't one, but the window does open onto a terrace."

I mean that would move so much faster and you can all tell a great story together. Why let random dice get in the way?

So if you had actually read my actual post, you would plausibly have figured out I mostly agree with you, that the players of a TRPG should have those sorts of expectations. That said, there are all sorts of good reasons one might use gamelike rules even if you have those--I'm sure you're clever enough to figure some of those out without resorting to any sort of ad absurdium stuff, in spite of available evidence.