D&D (2024) Help Me Hate Monks (Less Than I Currently Do)

[MGibster]

I am to Monks as Snarf is to Bards. And just so we're clear, I have an intense dislike for them in the context of most D&D settings. I rather like them in places like Legend of the Five Rings or Kar-Tur. It's like someone tried to shoehorn Kwai Chang Caine from Kung-Fu* into D&D and it's never really worked for me although I can't quite put my finger on why. Maybe it's because they sucked so much in the first edition of AD&D? I don't remember them at all from 2nd edition, though it's possible they were introduced in a supplement I didn't own, but I do remember being blissfully Monk-free until 2000 and the Monk reared it's ugly, quivering palm in 3rd edition. After more than thirty years of playing D&D off an on, it's time I just accept that Monks are here to stay.
* I see the Monk was inspired by a series of books called The Destroyers, one of which was adapted into the classic movie Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins in 1985 and Captain Janeway costars.
As I'm starting a new D&D campaign, I thought I'd challenge myself and try to incorporate a monastic order into the first adventure. At first, my instinct was to make them the antagonist, but as I've been working on the adventure things got a bit more complicated. The order of monks aren't the bad guys, but there are a group of heretics who are acting as the antagonist.

For members of the monastic Ordo Ventricula Sanctus, more popularly known as The Fat Boys, weight is a sign of one’s holiness. To most observers, these odd monks are gourmands, consumed by their desire to devour as much food as possible in an effort to expand their minds as well as the physical limits of their girdles. In reality, there is more to their eating than pleasure, though there is pleasure in it. Members of the Ordo believe that to consume a creature is to become one with it. These gastronomers seek out the most exotic of foods to become attuned to creation. And before you ask, no, they do not eat sapient creatures.

Anyone have any monastic orders you put in your game?

 

[Blue]

You said something very important early on "in the context of most D&D settings". And then at the end you are looking monastic order, as if that's the context.

But - this is heroic fantasy.

Dwarven pugilists, brawlers and wrestlers could all be monks, with no faux-Oriental monastery. Elves having dance based martial arts, and orders that study and further them can fit easily into most fantasy. Think about long tai-chi type robes and moving in them in perfected calm katas.

Martial arts in the real world orient had some origins among agricultural society not allowed weapons. Halflings might be a great analog, just preferring not having to carry weapons in their communities.

And this is before even things like flavoring some monks somewhat druidic, with animal themed martial arts (again, like real life), or that they are just as common as barbarians among your Norse-analog peoples. Or your seafarers whom heavy armor could be a bane.

Monks as a skill-set fit a number of fantasy tropes, you don't need to tie yourself to a faux-oriental pseudo-religious real-world-analog monastic order.

Give it a try!

 

[Zardnaar]

What about Tortles?

 

[TerraDave]

What about Tortles?

This is just trolling.

Or is it turteling?

 

[sevenbastard]

I'm with you on not liking monks in the pseudo-medieval fantasy that is D&D. They just don't fit the vibe.

I'm cool with them in the PHB as they are an option for some settings, but don't fit in others.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is just trolling.

Or is it turteling?

I'll take the 5th.

 

[mellored]

I can assure you, people where punching and kicking eachother in medieval times, and long before that too.

Now, they didn't have mystic powers to bend the elements, or summon shadows. But no one could lob fireballs either.

So just consider that innate power a half caster. And then rename them.

Phenomenal Pugalist?
Martial Mystic?
Spellfist?

 

[James Gasik]

Rant Warning!

While the Monk class can encompass a wide swath of non-Asian warriors, the fact is, the class has always been very heavily coded and marketed as "Kung Fu Guys", I mean, look at most of the Monk art that's been produced over the years. Or the need for some older editions to add every wacky martial arts "weapon" (sometimes using the term very loosely) to the game!

I remember a Dragon Magazine that offered an alternative Monk, based on African fighting traditions that was pretty cool, but it's a rarity to see official content that says "hey, not all Monks are Bruce Lee!".

Heck, usually when someone tries to make a Brawler or Pugilist, it's a variant Fighter, not Monk.

So DM's who want to allow the class are left with two options. One, have a "fantasy Asia" in their campaign, no matter how distant and far away. Two, go out of their way to create new flavor to support the mechanics of the class (or worse, try to kitbash modifications to the class- in one campaign, I had SmallkinHalfling martial artists who focus on kicking wearing heavy shoes called Klogs, loosely inspired by Savate and Capoeira, and I spent too much time figuring out how the shoes would work as weapons for a "Monk").

I don't mind the Monk (when it's not terrible), but it's designed to mimic one thing accurately, and anything else requires a little squinting or engaging in actual game re-design. It's one of those proud nails in the class system, a class with too much flavor, as opposed to the oatmeal most other classes are.

What's worse is, it doesn't often even work that well with the fantasy it espouses- there's no options for the Monk to learn strange new fighting styles or secret techniques, which is the basis for oh so many martial arts movies!

I remember a B:TAS episode where Batman and his rival, a Ninja, were both searching for a scroll that would teach an instant death move, a great adventure story, but to do that with the Monk, you either have to ad hoc an archetype or a "grandmaster training", when such options should already exist- because let's be honest, not every DM knows what they're doing. They might think "hey, I'll let my Monk learn a Hadoken or Kamehameha move" and only after the fact realize they may have horribly unbalanced the character by doing so.

Bottom line is, if you don't feel the flavor of the Monk "fits" your brand of D&D, don't feel you have to embrace it. Changing the flavor only goes so far, you're still left with the very specific grab bag of supernatural abilities the class offers, even if all you want is to emulate an MMA fighter or it's antiquated equivalent (say, Pankration). Even making a new archetype doesn't eliminate the things that don't fit, they just grant other options.

It's kind of like psionics, but worse. You can ban the Soulknife easily enough. But having to ban a whole class or take it upon yourself to modify it? It really shouldn't come down to that. Even little things like changing the name of "ki" doesn't really do the job.

Heck, most fantasy brawlers can wear armor, for example, something that the monk isn't designed to emulate at all! I saw Jet Li use shields in movies, but monks in D&D don't do that either!

It's ok to not love the Monk. I realize the OP wants to learn to like the Monk more, but you have to do a lot more work to justify the class in your setting than arguably any other.

And before anyone says "it's not that hard/just do X,Y,Z", just keep in mind that few other classes ask you to go out of your way to make room for them.

All you need for Clerics is Gods willing to reward faith. All you need for Barbarians are tough people who live in harsh environments. All you need for Wizards is people who can learn magic from books.

The Monk requires orders of mystic unarmed (kinda...) warriors with specific, set abilities to exist, without any guidelines for how Elven Monks might be different from Dwarven ones, or Centaur, or Plasmoids. Lineages with weapon training should automatically include those as "monk weapons", a lineage that can teleport should have special teleport maneuvers available to them, Dragonborn should have ki-powered breath attacks, ala characters like Dhalsim or Karnov, etc..

Now I can see the argument for this sort of thing to exist for other classes to a degree, but this sort of thing is literally in the core identity of the Monk:

Monks are united in their ability to magically harness the energy that flows in their bodies. Whether channeled as a striking display of combat prowess or a subtler focus of defensive ability and speed, this energy infuses all that a monk does.

 

[Black Dougal]

Down with Monks!

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

Just about all of the monks I've ever rolled up were some version or another of Friar Tuck.