D&D 5E Stripping 5e to its core

[CreamCloud0]

There's at least one OSR game -- I forget which -- which makes weapon damage go off of class, not the weapon itself. A fighter always does d8 damage with a weapon, a thief or cleric always does d6 damage, a wizard always does d4.

It simplifies the game a lot and the damage matches up with existing weapon categories pretty closely throughout D&D history.

i might cross that idea with inspiration from the idea you responded to, your class sets your base damage die and weapon properties shift it up or down:
ranged(100/300) -2 die size (ranged weapons would default to STR rather than DEX)
ranged(30/80) -1 die size
finesse -1 die size
reach -1 die size
1-handed -no change
2-handed +1 die size
sluggish +1 die size (functionally loading's 1 attack per turn but not limited to ranged weapons)
heavy(13 STR) +1 die size
heavy(17 STR) +2 die size

using this method i think i'd bump up the base size of their default damage die due to likely loosing at least 1 die size on 'improvements' fighter: d10, rogue and cleric: d8, wizard: d6

 

[Tiberiusthedm]

With the exception of the damage, I've done all that with B&B So we're on the same page. However, I've found folks really like rolling dice A tactile motion to keep a person physically involved.

I've been using BB&BL for a month as a bar game. It's a GREAT starring point I HIGHLY suggest picking up (I got the separate books and they're great)

The simplicity of the abilities and lack of skills has been great!

 

[Tiberiusthedm]

So with this thought exercise? There is the new 2024 version and there are lessons learned with B&B that could have been done a bit better IMO. So while an OSR feel basic version of 5e is not in scope (Shadowdark has that covered), there is an opportunity to really focus on a basic 5e primer. In my head, that means the core game starts completely stripped down. That's what the new players will experience at low levels--just the critical terms and rules. Then a secondary module that starts to introduce some of the 2024 5e things (terms, rules, etc.). Kind of modular learn as you go approach.

Between B&B and another game "Into the unknown" I've been using them as a sort of B/X 5e set in that way where Into the Unknown is the secondary module.

I'm trying to design my own system, now. Inspired by B&B and Into the Unknown, but built for my table. (We prefer Spell Points over Spell Slots)

My end goal would be 3 sets Basic, Expert, and Companion inspired. The Basic version is stripped down, Expert includes more of the outdoor adventuring, and more complex rules.

Companion would touch on strongholds/bastions and crafting. And I'm trying to find ways to make harvesting from.certain monsters more built into the game. I prefer the idea of my players being rewarded by being able to make thier own potions and magic items, than for them to mostly be found or purchased.

My plan currently is Basic is levels 1-3 Expert is 4-10 Companion probably 11-14 or 20 won't know until I playtest it.

 

[Blue]

If we're looking at what can be pulled out without changing the nature of the game, let's look at some things we often ignore. I'm going to get further and further out as I go on.

How about the grid? Played lots of Basic and AD&D all Theater of the Mind.

Do we need skills? Early D&D we didn't get skills until they were introduced in the optional [Wilderness/Dungeoneer's] Survival Guide. Before that PCs were just assumed competent: "No PC ever fell off a horse before there was a ride skill."

Can we remove races as mechanical aspects and still have it feel like D&D? How much mechanically does your 7th level half-orc differ from a 7th level dwarf? Can race just be something we describe, like hair color?

Can we remove the experience of level 1? It plays a lot different than most other levels because of how fragile the PC is. I'd say some majority (>50%) of players & DMs would be fine starting with an experience that was a bit closer to the rest of play, and there's some minority that thinks level 1 is too far along and wants to start as level 0 anyway.

Here's one I'm not seriously suggesting, more to make you think about the parts we don't think about: could you remove the d12 and still have it feel like D&D?

 

[Sacrosanct]

If we're looking at what can be pulled out without changing the nature of the game, let's look at some things we often ignore. I'm going to get further and further out as I go on.

How about the grid? Played lots of Basic and AD&D all Theater of the Mind.

Do we need skills? Early D&D we didn't get skills until they were introduced in the optional [Wilderness/Dungeoneer's] Survival Guide. Before that PCs were just assumed competent: "No PC ever fell off a horse before there was a ride skill."

Can we remove races as mechanical aspects and still have it feel like D&D? How much mechanically does your 7th level half-orc differ from a 7th level dwarf? Can race just be something we describe, like hair color?

Can we remove the experience of level 1? It plays a lot different than most other levels because of how fragile the PC is. I'd say some majority (>50%) of players & DMs would be fine starting with an experience that was a bit closer to the rest of play, and there's some minority that thinks level 1 is too far along and wants to start as level 0 anyway.

Here's one I'm not seriously suggesting, more to make you think about the parts we don't think about: could you remove the d12 and still have it feel like D&D?

The d12 is my favorite die. It’s not going anywhere lol

 

[Horwath]

How far can you strip 5e down to core mechanics and still have a game that looks and feels like D&D, and could still be relatively compatible? By compatible, I mean about as close as a B/X character was with AD&D--some big differences, but you could still play them side by side and have it work. For newer players, I believe the simpler rules and less terms to know is the way to go. Maximizing real estate is another priority.

Things you have to keep

• Vancian magic
• d20 mechanic

hehe,
1st thing I would get rid off would be those 2:

1: Spell point variant
2: 3d6, or if we need only one dice, than d12, for more reliability.

 

[Horwath]

How far do you want to go?
Reduce the weapons chart. Doesn’t matter what a weapon actually is it fits one of the categories:
light hand weapons - d6
Regular hand weapon - d8
Heavy hand weapons - d10, require 2 hands
Reach weapon - d8, reach 1, 2 hands
Bows - d6
Crossbow - d8

I did thing a little more complex.

1st: Heavy is still disadvantage for small species:

Base damage die for 1Handed simple weapon: 1d8

damage die increase Traits:

Martial weapon: +1 step
2Handed: +2 steps
Heavy: +1 step


damage die decrease Traits:

Finesse: -1 step
Light: -1 step
Reach: -1 step
Thrown(40/120): -1 step


some rules for combining weapon Traits:

Heavy weapons cannot be Finesse
Heavy weapons cannot be Light. Duh!
Heavy weapons cannot be Thrown
1Handed Reach weapons cannot be Heavy
Light and Thrown can only be 1Handed weapons
Versatile is a free property for every 1Handed weapon without Finesse and/or Light property

optional: some Light weapons can get "free" lesser Thrown property, 15/30ft range for legacy reasons: Dagger, Hand axe, Light hammer.

This way we get:
Dagger: 1d4 damage, Finesse, Light, Thrown(15/30)
Throwing knife; 1d3 damage, Finesse, Light, Thrown(40/120)

 

[Horwath]

The d12 is my favorite die. It’s not going anywhere lol

I love our d12+4 instead of d20.

 

[Scars Unseen]

To me, the absolute core of D&D is a d20 and a social contract. Want to play DM Fiat: The Game? The players describe what they want to do, and the DM decides if a roll is needed, and what the threshold of success is. Anything you add to that just makes it more or less like one version of D&D or another.

 

[Delazar]

d20 is a must, but I would also go with "spell points" instead of Vancian casting. It's just so much easier to explain to new players. "This is your pool of health, and this is you pool of mana". Anyone that ever played any video game will get it immediately.

Maybe those that are not spellcasters can use those points for other stuff.

On saving throws, I would go with just Physical (Mid of Str/Dex/Con) and Mental (Mid of Int/Wis/Cha)

Three classes, and specialize later it's a great idea.

Warrior
HP: d10
MP: d6
Proficiency: All armor and all weapons
Good save: Physical

Expert
HP: d8
MP: d8
Proficiency: Light armor and simple weapons
Good save: player's choice

Spellcaster
HP: d6
MP: d10
Proficiency: No armor and no weapons.
Good save: Mental

Sometimes I feel I'd like some sort of Dragonbane RPG with level-up mechanics.