D&D (2024) I am so torn [UPDATE: I bought it]

[Reynard]

That's true, though I think that @Retreater made a good point about the 4E FG files no longer being sold. When we get a new edition of D&D (and I'm certain that's a question of when, rather than if), I expect the 5E materials will also be unavailable to purchase, leaving anyone who discovers 5E later on (such as a new generation of gamers) out in the cold, at least where FG is concerned.

I'd wonder why WotC is fine with 4E PDFs being purchased, but not the files necessary to play 4E on Fantasy Grounds...except that it's quite clear at this point that WotC wants to dominate the VTT space. Which is their prerogative; I just wish they'd recognize that their competitors are other pastimes rather than other RPGs (including previous editions of their own).

I'm not sure WotC does want to dominate the VTT market. The one they are building is exceedingly niche, and as i understand it, Maps on beyond is way under-developed.

 

[pukunui]

I'm not sure WotC does want to dominate the VTT market. The one they are building is exceedingly niche, and as i understand it, Maps on beyond is way under-developed.

Map is getting better all the time. They recently made it so you can run encounters in it.

 

[thullgrim]

This is a complete aside, but:

a) Shadowdark is not a 5E game. It is much, much closer to a B/X game.
b) You think SWADE is crunchier than 5E?

In playstyle and intent Shadowdark is certainly much closer to B/X. Mechanically its a slimmed down 5e.

I definitely think SWADE is crunchier than 5e. I think it's got more corner case resolution details. It's got more character complexity I feel. Granted they are both mid-crunch, and neither runs into the high crunch end of the spectrum. When we did try 5e my entire group felt like there was nothing to it. Monsters felt like bags of hit points. Character options were limited and so on. Opinions can vary.

 

[Reynard]

In playstyle and intent Shadowdark is certainly much closer to B/X. Mechanically its a slimmed down 5e.

The only 5E-ism in SD is advantage.

I definitely think SWADE is crunchier than 5e. I think it's got more corner case resolution details. It's got more character complexity I feel. Granted they are both mid-crunch, and neither runs into the high crunch end of the spectrum. When we did try 5e my entire group felt like there was nothing to it. Monsters felt like bags of hit points. Character options were limited and so on. Opinions can vary.

Sure. Maybe SWADE can feel more complex because things are not silo'd in classes. But even starting 5E characters have many more moving parts than SWADE characters. SWADE does have more options in a tactical sense, though.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Ask yourself this: do you want the 5E 2024 books or not?

If you want them, get them. Either second-hand or elsewhere (they're out there) if you would rather re-imburse someone who regrets their decision to buy them (they gave their money to WotC, you're giving it to them and helping them regret it less).

The simple truth is you can get the books without giving the money to WotC.

For me, the tone of 5e was good at start but drifted a bit much both with regard to art as well as content. I skipped 2e, 3.5 and in large part 4e.

I hate not being current in some respects but am not afraid to be an outlier if I must.

I just can’t with 2024 D&D. It’s just not going to please me. I don’t want to be the complainer and the downer so I won’t do it but I just can’t make the shift. I wish that was not the case.

I like 5e but realize at other times I want the old harsher grit. I decided no on 2024 and bought Dragonslayer instead for non 5e gaming. For me it is 5e and perhaps at times dragon slayer.

WOTC is still WOTC. That has not changed. So for me it’s about what I want to play, period. I have a lot of wizkids minis…so they may get some cash from me that way regardless.

That may end too though if they keep changing the aesthetics. I got an orc mini that looked like a light blue half orc that does aerobics and wears a hamburgler mask.

I…just can’t anymore.

I liked 5e and wish I could stay current but with my precious time do I want to learn new rules that fix things that were not really a problem for my group?

The drawback which sucks is that most discussions d community sticks with the new. I know that but I have a built in group of family and friends. If I did not, there would be more incentive to go 2024.

But u can make sure to buy second hand and not support that business much at all. Play what you like…play what will afford you community and whatever you choose you don’t have to give them money.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Are you going to be playing 5E24 any time soon?

If the answer is 'No', then you don't need to spend your money because you aren't going to use them. And it won't matter what any of your feelings towards WotC may or may not be. No reason to buy something you aren't going to use.

If the answer is 'Yes', then decide whether owning any of the three new core books would make your experience playing it easier. For all you know it might not be necessary. You might find you can play the game without issue by just borrowing one of your table-mate's Player's Handbooks on occasion when you need to write down your character abilities or level up. But if you find that owning a PHB in order to reference it while playing does become a necessity (to avoid annoying your fellow players who own their own copies if nothing else)... then you can make the decision as to the morals you feel towards giving Wizards of the Coast $35 (half of the shelf price, as the other half goes to the bookstore you buy it from) versus no longer having to keep bothering your friends by continually borrowing their books.

Thus the answer is what you feel is ultimately worse... giving WotC $35 or bothering your friends at the table on occasion.

* EDIT * And if the only reason you might buy the books is because you've "always bought new D&D books"... that's an emotional response that you can get over at this point in your life. It's just gaming. There are so many other things to get emotionally tied up in... spending money on things you might not use just because you "always have" should not be one of them.

I agree with this. I bought every core set of D&D books and most supplements (cash permitting) from 1985 to about two years ago. It was hard to stop, but it was the right decision for me. Now I decide what to get on a product by product basis, and I'm much happier with my purchases on average. The last gaming product I bought myself that I truly regret was Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, mostly because no amount of enjoyment I could get from it (and believe it or not it wasn't zero) could equal how angry what they did to my favorite official campaign setting made me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My guess is that those companies that have access to that market would very much disagree with you.

Also, DTRPG takes 30% too. It's pretty standard.

Good faith to customers and those who.might want to use the SRD, not their existing business partners.

 

[dave2008]

The 3.5 SRD? Done my man. They could have done that, they chose not to.

OK, but it can't be done before it is done. Maybe they have chosen to do it and need time. I still expect to see it, but I don't have 100% confidence after Kyle left and we don't really have a face to these issues.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm not sure WotC does want to dominate the VTT market. The one they are building is exceedingly niche, and as i understand it, Maps on beyond is way under-developed.

Considering how influential WotC D&D is in the industry, nothing they do with it is niche.

 

[Micah Sweet]

OK, but it can't be done before it is done. Maybe they have chosen to do it and need time. I still expect to see it, but I don't have 100% confidence after Kyle left and we don't really have a face to these issues.

I suspect the face didn't give them the full-throated unconditional support they were hoping for.