D&D (2024) DMG 2024: Is The Sandbox Campaign Dead?

[Echohawk]

Do you know how difficult it is to get players to make decisions? I try to allow agency and tell them they can pursue their own businesses or build keeps etc. I never get anyone to make the effort.​

I don't run a sandbox campaign, but I try to give my players a bit of choice over their story arcs. I'm currently running a Spelljammer campaign, with a massive galactic conflict as the back story and an alliance of space-faring nations serving as the group's patrons. Once they finish one adventure arc, I give them a choice of new missions offered by their patrons. For example, they might choose between:​

• A short diplomatic sortie, to cement co-operation from the planet's reclusive neighbors in this Wildspace system.​
• A risky visit to a Wildspace system currently under attack to gather intelligence about their common enemy.​
• A potentially prolonged search for an ancient race that has not been seen for centuries, but which could be a valuable ally.​
• A journey to escort an experimental dimensional device to a remote weapons testing site operated by the navy.​

I make sure that, off camera, other adventuring groups deal with the missions they don't pick, so when they return from whichever one they chose, they'll discover that diplomatic ties have been established with the reclusive neighbors, and that the team sent to investigate the system under attack disappeared without a trace. Importantly, they make the decision in our group chat between games, so I don't have to prepare all the possible adventures at once.

This approach is not by any means a sandbox, but it does empower the players a bit, and it gives me really useful feedback on the style of adventures that interest them the most and the types of stories they want the campaign to tell.

And yes, of course, they picked the experimental weapon mission.​

 

[Remathilis]

Totally unnecessary and inappropriate. Classic comment made just to give air to the mouth.
I NEVER SAID that D&D is going badly. I have disputed, and again confirm, that the numbers boasted by WOTC DO NOT HAVE A COUNTERPROOF.
Official documents (Q3 shareholder reports) make no mention of this huge success, and there are no sources to confirm what is claimed. In addition, Hsbro has been subjected to a class action lawsuit for false information designed to inflate the numbers. These are FACTS!
The rest are (respectable) opinions, but nothing more.
I've been playing D&D since 1985, and I'm just glad it continues to be successful. So keep the nonsense to yourself please.

I'll take it you're not dropping the tangent then.

 

[mamba]

I NEVER SAID that D&D is going badly.

ah, so the below was someone hijacking your account then, got it

WOTC is loosing lot of customer due to their "great work" with 2024 D&D edition.

Hasbro's investor reports for Q3 2024 all show declining numbers

BG3 save the company.

 

[Bae'zel]

Totally unnecessary and inappropriate. Classic comment made just to give air to the mouth.
I NEVER SAID that D&D is going badly. I have disputed, and again confirm, that the numbers boasted by WOTC DO NOT HAVE A COUNTERPROOF.
Official documents (Q3 shareholder reports) make no mention of this huge success, and there are no sources to confirm what is claimed. In addition, Hsbro has been subjected to a class action lawsuit for false information designed to inflate the numbers. These are FACTS!
The rest are (respectable) opinions, but nothing more.
I've been playing D&D since 1985, and I'm just glad it continues to be successful. So keep the nonsense to yourself please.

OK, how about:
"Hasbro is arguably untrustworthy, so D&D's success is still a mystery, but they're probably doing badly."

 

[Oofta]

Sandboxes often have throughlines. I think we're confusing terms here. Players drive the path in a Sandbox, but it doesn't mean DMs don't use that player-driven path to craft a throughline for them. It's not a railroad to propose "Well, since you're seeking out cultists, I'll through a cultist leader in here, and toss evidence they're linked to this lich."



I will have to look again but I think there was a travel and exploration in Greyhawk part I read?

I'm still looking forward to an RPG dictionary that clearly defines all of these terms. Because it seems to me that some people think the only true sandbox is a hex crawl, or you put the PCs in a tavern and they have to figure out what to do and where to go. Other people would say that it's a sandbox if there are many paths to achieve the same goal.

 

[Reynard]

I was just pointing out that just about any decision they make gets criticized.



No it will not lead the end of sandbox because if you're running a sandbox effectively you are already an experienced GM either running D&D or other systems and you don't need much advice. If you want ideas on how to run a sandbox it's just a quick search away. We live in a different world than what I grew up with when there was no internet, no google. The books don't have to cover every campaign style and I don't think they can nor do I think they should. The campaigns they describe are a good way to start for a new DM.

DMs need to figure out what kind of campaign works for them. Pure linear? Take a linear module and customize it for your PCs? Something between linear and sandbox? I have a fond hope, likely only to be provided by a 3PP, for an Advanced DM's Toolbox which is clearly aimed to something other than people new to the hobby. Include everything from faction maps for your campaign to the building your own monster (which I still think should have been in the MM) to a dozen other things that I can't think of off the top of my head.

You are responding like someone who knows what they are doing, not someone who learned to DM from the 2024 DMG.

 

[Oofta]

It's crazy why people still wonder why WOTC does the bare minimum.

One of the big complaints about the 2014 DMG is that it seemed to be aimed at experienced DMs and it lacked clear advice. The 2024 DMG is aimed at new DMs, so it gives advice they believe a newbie DM should follow. Do you really think people care all that much about what the book says once they have experience DMing for a while? People have to develop their own style but they also need to begin somewhere. Talking about how you start your journey as a DM is a choice they made because too many options can be confusing. It's why I hope that someday the produce a new book specifically targeted at more experienced DMs since the DMG is just the starting point.

 

[SkidAce]

But that's my point

Those variants and advice aren't in the official 5e books. They would require more pages in either DMG.



See above

Guidelines for random encounters in a wilderness adventure/sandbox were in the official 5e books.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/dmg-2014/creating-adventures#CreatingRandomEncounterTables

 

[Oofta]

You are responding like someone who knows what they are doing, not someone who learned to DM from the 2024 DMG.

I learned from OD&D which was significantly worse when it came to giving advice on how to run campaigns. You can't learn all DMing styles, nor can you learn what will work for you personally, from reading a book. You have to try out different things and learn from experience.

 

[SkidAce]

I don't run a sandbox campaign, but I try to give my players a bit of choice over their story arcs. I'm currently running a Spelljammer campaign, with a massive galactic conflict as the back story and an alliance of space-faring nations serving as the group's patrons. Once they finish one adventure arc, I give them a choice of new missions offered by their patrons. For example, they might choose between:​

• A short diplomatic sortie, to cement co-operation from the planet's reclusive neighbors in this Wildspace system.​
• A risky visit to a Wildspace system currently under attack to gather intelligence about their common enemy.​
• A potentially prolonged search for an ancient race that has not been seen for centuries, but which could be a valuable ally.​
• A journey to escort an experimental dimensional device to a remote weapons testing site operated by the navy.​

I make sure that, off camera, other adventuring groups deal with the missions they don't pick, so when they return from whichever one they chose, they'll discover that diplomatic ties have been established with the reclusive neighbors, and that the team sent to investigate the system under attack disappeared without a trace. Importantly, they make the decision in our group chat between games, so I don't have to prepare all the possible adventures at once.

This approach is not by any means a sandbox, but it does empower the players a bit, and it gives me really useful feedback on the style of adventures that interest them the most and the types of stories they want the campaign to tell.

And yes, of course, they picked the experimental weapon mission.​

This is the Way.