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Are Orcs in the Monster Manual? No and Yes.

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The culture war surrounding orcs in Dungeons & Dragons continues with the release of the 2025 Monster Manual. Review copies of the Monster Manual are out in the wild, with many sites, EN World included, are giving their thoughts about the final core rulebook for the revised Fifth Edition ruleset. But while most commentators are discussing whether or not the monsters in the new Monster Manual hit harder than their 2014 equivalent, a growing number of commentators (mostly on Elon Musk's Twitter, but other places as well) are decrying the abolishment of orcs in the new rulebook.

Several months ago, would-be culture warriors complained about the depiction of orcs in the new Player's Handbook. Instead of depicting orcs as bloodthirsty marauders or creatures of evils, orcs (or more specifically, playable orcs) were depicted as a traveling species given endurance, determination, and the ability by their god Gruumsh to see in the darkness to help them "wander great plains, vast caverns, and churning seas." Keep in mind that one of the core facets of Dungeons & Dragons is that every game is defined by its players rather than an official canon, but some people were upset or annoyed about the shift in how a fictional species of humanoids were portrayed in two paragraphs of text and a piece of art in a 250+ page rulebook.

With the pending release of the Monster Manual, the orc is back in the spotlight once again. This time, it's because orcs no longer have statblocks in the Monster Manual. While the 2014 Monster Manual had a section detailing orc culture and three statblocks for various kinds of orcs, all specific mention of orcs have indeed been removed from the Monster Manual. The orcs are not the only creature to receive this treatment - drow are no longer in the Monster Manual, nor are duergar.

However, much of this is due to a deliberate design choice, meant not to sanitize Dungeons & Dragons from evil sentient species, but rather to add some versatility to a DM's toolbox. Orcs (and drow) are now covered under the expanded set of generic NPC statblocks in the Monster Manual. Instead of players being limited to only three Orc-specific statblocks (the Orc, the Orc War Chief and the Orc Eye of Gruumsh), DMs can use any of the 45 Humanoid statblocks in the book. Campaigns can now feature orc assassins, orc cultists, orc gladiators, or orc warriors instead of leaning on a handful of stats that lean into specific D&D lore.

Personally, I generally like that the D&D design ethos is leaning away from highly specific statblocks to more generalized ones. Why wouldn't an orc be an assassin or a pirate? Why should orcs (or any other species chosen to be adversaries in a D&D campaign) be limited to a handful of low CR statblocks? The design shift allows DMs more versatility, not less.

However, I do think that the D&D design team would do well to eventually provide some modularity to these generic statblocks, allowing DMs to "overlay" certain species-specific abilities over these NPC statblocks. Abilities like darkvision for orcs or the ability to cast darkness for drow or a fiendish rebuke for tieflings would be an easy way to separate the generic human assassin from the orc without impacting a statblock's CR.

As for the wider controversy surrounding orcs in D&D, the game and its lore is evolving over time, just as it has over the past 50 years. There's still a place for evil orcs, but they no longer need to be universally (or multiversally) evil within the context of the game. The idea that D&D's rulebooks must depict anything but the rules themselves a specific way is antithetical to the mutability of Dungeons & Dragons, which is supposed to be one of the game's biggest strengths.
 

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Christian Hoffer

Christian Hoffer

I mean I don’t have all the books, but what!?!

You start of with the options in the Players Handbook. But there are many other player species options in other books, like "Plasmoid", and so on.

The total number of options is way over a hundred, especially if you count earlier versions of a species.

Monsters of the Multiverse has roughly 30 playable species.
With full backwards compatibility between all 5E books, you have a VAST amount of playable races.

And thats not even counting 3PP material.
 

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For this to be true, there would have to be zero humanoids in the monster manual. That is not the case. You can still fight and kill humanoids. There is no suggestion that not having the humanoid creature type indicates that someone is not a person.
I really think they should have just bitten the bullet and moved all sentient humanoid creatures out of the MM. In my own homebrewed reorganization of 5e monsters, I moved all humanoid statblocks to my NPC listing, organized by general category (mage, knight, warrior, priest, etc), with descriptions on what those terms mean in context. At the beginning of the NPC section is a big listing of every humanoid referenced in the section and what their deal is, including what signature traits you would add to a more generic statblock. Its a lot of info, but it has the virtue of being consistent and giving me easy access to every statblock.
 



This is a thread about the "removal" of orcs from the Monster Manual, which as I understand it, has been done because it is now viewed as problematic to position them as a uniformly evil species.

QuentinGeorge drew a parallel between this and the inclusion of humans in the 2nd Edition Monstrous Manual, and noted that this worked perfectly fine.

I pointed out that it did not, in fact, work perfectly fine, because the specific entry for humans in the Monstrous Manual is problematic for reasons that are not at all dissimilar to the reason orcs, drow and duergar are no longer treated as monsters. Changing cultural sensitivities demand changing approaches to the presentation of content.

I don't think you are using the term "bad faith response" correctly above, but in any case, I don't appreciate the unwarranted personal attack.
Then why is it "problematic" for orcs, drow and duergar, but not for all the other beings still considered monsters?
 

But this isn't considered a new edition, is it?
There is certainly a before after going on where mechanics in some regards have changed so yes, I consider it* a new edition regardless of the amount of fresh content that is.

  • opinion
  • ymmv
  • I’m not speaking for everyone
 

Bauldurs Gate 3: Time to kill dem Goblins

Everybody: Oh goody!!!

Insert scene of random Hobgoblin and Octopus making out while a Necromancer is telling his minions to bring him pictures of Spider-Man for some reason.
 


Um, I don't think it really helps make your point that having humans in the Monstrous Manual "worked perfectly fine", when the screenshot you used includes terminology that would generally be considered offensive today.

Mod Note:
Echohawk. This post is not, on the face of it, something we would normally moderate in and of itself. But, let us be clear, this is not a comment on the general utility of this approach to humanoids - it is a comment on language use of the past. The effect is to distract from the original discussion.

And it now gets red text, because your poorly-directed nitpick has led to an escalation of conflict. Not a good job. In the future, maybe spend a moment or two more to consider if what you are saying is constructive to the conversation at hand.


This post here is a really good example of how bad faith responses and hyperfocusing on singular details out of context can drive discussions in the wrong direction.


Reynard, here you are guilty of making an unsupported personal accusation of "bad faith", as if you can read minds and hearts over the internet. The term is trendy, but is typically a dismissive personal attack, which is not okay. Yes, the point was orthogonal to the discussion and nitpicky, but, guess what? We have a lot of folks who are easily distracted and nitpicky. Please do not ascribe to "bad faith" (which implies intention) that which is sufficiently explained by being lack of consideration of relevance.

With that cleared up, we now expect the two of you to de-escalate. Simply disengaging from each other would do the trick, as would actually being polite, kind and/or thoughtful in your responses.

Please live up to that expectation. Thanks.
 


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