D&D (2024) I have a Monster Manual. AMA!

[Scribe]

If the Goblin is a Fey "force of recklessness", then it has no free will, not in a human sense anyway, isnt humanlike, and isnt typically relatable and playable. The goblin is a demon of destruction, or rather a daemon of convoluted destruction.

By contrast, Orc, Lizardfolk, and Human are "Humanoid", explicitly humanlike.

But if many players are playing the Fey Goblins (compare when many players played Drow), then this is the new Drow, the new Orc.

I mean, you can wrap yourself in knots to justify it, but its comical on its face.

A Goblin is no different than an Orc or Drow, at all. This is honestly some of the most weaselly behavior I've seen from Wizards.

This is no different than "orcs are a force of destruction" from Volos. Laughable.

 

[Yaarel]

I mean, you can wrap yourself in knots to justify it, but its comical on its face.

A Goblin is no different than an Orc or Drow, at all. This is honestly some of the most weaselly behavior I've seen from Wizards.

This is no different than "orcs are a force of destruction" from Volos. Laughable.

I agree, the Goblin is the same difficulty as the Orc.

The problem with Goblin hasnt happened yet, since the playable species is still Humanoid.

But it is something that will become problem. I am watching the problem unfold in live time.

If not the Goblin, inevitably a one or many other playable Nonhumanoids.


There is still time for WotC to catch the problem, but it requires a tag, a mechanic that makes 1000% clear that this creature is too human and requires reallife sensitivity as a human does, but this other creature isnt humanlike in any way, so dont worry about ethical nuance.

 

[Scribe]

I agree, the Goblin is the same difficulty as the Orc.

The problem with Goblin hasnt happened yet, since the playable species is still Humanoid.

But it is something that will become problem. I am watching the problem unfold in live time.

If not the Goblin, inevitably a one or many other playable Nonhumanoids.


There is still time for WotC to catch the problem, but it requires a tag, a mechanic that makes 1000% clear that this creature is too human and requires reallife sensitivity as a human does, but this other creature isnt humanlike in any way, so dont worry about ethical nuance.

LOL the problem is not a tag my man.

The problem is Wizards listened to nonsense.

Elf Game.

 

[Maxperson]

I never understood that as something other than 85 additional statblocks. To me the scam is that they also got rid of some in the ‘we map orcs to NPCs’ approach, so it is not actually 85 more

85 new monsters to me, means 85 NEW monsters. A variant of an old one isn't a new monster. It's the same monster version B or C.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

5e fights were in large part very boring to me(and a lot of others that I've seen post) because WotC balanced around doing damage to large bags of hit points. Making more of the same isn't the way to fix that issue

Thank you for taking the time.

Yeah, I do agree in many places. I think the new animals are in a good spot. CR 1's with less than 30 hp. And Many CR 2 creatures are in the 40 range. I think CR 1/2 HP should never be higher than 20.

 

[pukunui]

It just gets more and more funny honestly.

Actually I wonder if maybe they focused on orcs because they were an easy way to replace half-orcs in the PHB.

 

[Voadam]

Back during my brief foray running 4e, I actually experimented with giving PCs recharges (5-6 for an encounter power and 6 for a daily). It was fun! I think it would be fun for players in 5e too.

Running one shot games for my son in the 4e era using monster stat blocks for PCs using recharges instead of AEDU worked really well. Plenty of player race stat blocks and full on monsters for him to choose from.

 

[Tormyr]

Thugs have multiattack.
+4 to hit, 1d6+2 damage. (x2)
AC 11, 32 HP

Vs Orcs
+5 to hit, 1d12+3 damage.
AC 13, 15 HP.

To be fair, aggressive is a trait that allows them to bring in the hurt very fast. So maybe the challenge is really about the same...

If you add orc species trait to the thug (which probably is not RAW), the thug will stomp the PCs.

Actually, relentless endurance + adrenaline rush can effectively double orc hp.

I don't know if it has been addressed in the last 20 pages, but if you crunch the numbers using the 2014 DMG, the orc is actually CR 1. That move from +4 to +5 attack bonus gives it an offensive CR of 2.

In this case, the move to being a Tough/Thug makes the basic orc weaker, but it also aligns with one of the stated goals of creatures being more true to their CR. Whereas a low-level party fighting a group of orcs was a bit like rocket tag, there will be more of a boiled frog feel from the same encounter now. The party will have time to figure out that they are losing.

If the Tough traded Multiattack for Pack Tactics, that drops their CR further to 1/4 using the old 2014 calculator.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don't know if it has been addressed in the last 20 pages, but if you crunch the numbers using the 2014 DMG, the orc is actually CR 1. That move from +4 to +5 attack bonus gives it an offensive CR of 2.

In this case, the move to being a Tough/Thug makes the basic orc weaker, but it also aligns with one of the stated goals of creatures being more true to their CR. Whereas a low-level party fighting a group of orcs was a bit like rocket tag, there will be more of a boiled frog feel from the same encounter now. The party will have time to figure out that they are losing.

If you account for the fact that toughs don't have multiattack, you are correct.

This comment was based on Fritz's comment that the tough is exactly like the thug before. Which we both corrected later.

Yeah, orcs were strong. I still think 32 hp is a bit too much for CR 1/2 creatures. 25 or so would already be very tough, surpassing the HP of some CR 1 creatures.

 

[Tormyr]

If you account for the fact that toughs don't have multiattack, you are correct.

This comment was based on Fritz's comment that the tough is exactly like the thug before. Which we both corrected later.

Yeah, orcs were strong. I still think 32 hp is a bit too much for CR 1/2 creatures. 25 or so would already be very tough, surpassing the HP of some CR 1 creatures.

Yeah, I had just noticed that. Swapping Multiattack for Pack Tactics lowers CR to 1/4 using the 2014 guidance, unless Pack Tactics is worth a lot more now.

And going with what you said, that just makes the 32 HP look more weird on a "CR 1/4" creature.

On the other hand, a bunch of toughs will still be mopped up in a turn or two by a higher-level party.