D&D General Drow & Orcs Removed from the Monster Manual

[Paul Farquhar]

The last three survivors of an orcish army

Not everyone in an orcish army has to be an orc.

 

[Maxperson]

Wellll..... why are we decribing a people as only raiding your territory and the territories of your neighbours if they aren't inherently evil?

Because that's what they are primarily known for. And you don't have to be inherently evil to be raiders. Inherent evil is the kind of evil demons, devils, and yogoloths have. They are tied to planar alignment and so are inherently the same evil as their plane.

There are no humanoids that are inherently evil and no orc in any edition has been inherently evil. Even in 1e always wasn't always when it came to alignments.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Their earlier depictions were like the earlier depictions of Orcs, from Wikipedia

In Errand of Mercy, the first episode in which klingons appear, the point is made that Kor and Kirk are very much alike, and have far more in common with each other than they do with the Organians.

 

[Maxperson]

lol at Klingon society being "feudal" and "authoritarian".... they're different things! Most feudal societies were not authoritarian because the complex ties of loyalty and feudal service meant no king could act without the consent of his powerful vassals. Authoritarianism emerged in the modern era...after getting rid of feudalism.

So what you are saying is that resistance is feudal?

 

[Chaltab]

So what you are saying is that resistance is feudal?

Really wish there was a blank stare reaction. I want this post to feel this face:

 

[Maxperson]

Honestly, I’m ready to move away from alignment altogether. I already have in my games for a while, but the more I think of it, the more I feel this artifact is hurting and restraining the game more than it enriches it.

In my games I find it invaluable as a quick way to identify how to roleplay some monster or NPC that I haven't fleshed out and the players want to interact with. On the player side of things, I only care that they have a personality for their characters that they roleplay. They are free to use or ignore alignment as they see fit.

 

[Maxperson]

Really wish there was a blank stare reaction. I want this post to feel this face:

Sorry! That was a combination of tired brain intersecting with a bunch of posts about Klingons.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

In my games I find it invaluable as a quick way to identify how to roleplay some monster or NPC that I haven't fleshed out and the players want to interact with. On the player side of things, I only care that they have a personality for their characters that they roleplay. They are free to use or ignore alignment as they see fit.

This is my approach too. PCs may or may not have an alignment. I, as DM, don't care what it is, or if they leave it blank. Works for NPCs too.

 

[Maxperson]

why are you not jumping all over @MGibster for insisting that orcs should always be evil in the game? After all, you guys have been going on and on about how it doesn't actually say specifically that orcs are evil, yet, when someone says that they want always evil orcs that are there to be killed, that's perfectly fine.

Probably because it's perfectly fine if someone wants to add always/inherently evil orcs to their game. It's their game. What we are arguing against is the wrong idea that orcs have ever really been always evil in D&D. Even in the 1e days there were exceptions that weren't evil. Entire villages if the DM wanted. Orcs were bad guys, yes. Inherently evil, never.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Hmm...having 9 major races, each of which is an alignment exemplar, and made that way by their creating god, would be an interesting setting conceit.

my own selection of species for this concept...

LG - Dwarves
NG - 'Beastfolk' collectively the 'animal people' species of hargenon, tortles, owlin, tabaxi, minotaurs, grung and leonin
CG - Warforged

LN - Dragonborn
TN - Halflings
CN - Gnomes

LE - Orcs
NE - Changelings
CE - Eladrin