D&D (2024) Martial/Caster fix.

[Horwath]

I have time and again seen number of slots brought up as a way to control spellcaster advantages in power and utility. BUT how about using Spell Schools as a control mechanism. Limiting access to 2-3 schools at level one and gaining access to further schools as the character levels up.

To delve further into spell school control would be the idea of minor and major access ie minor access being spell levels 1-4 and major access 6-8. Even this can be further manipulated by changing the level spread or introducing an intermediate access.

Spells known is the best limiter.

you can have one caster class with access to all spells and spell known of 2014 sorcerer and it would be balanced. extra known due to sub-class may apply.

 

[aiouh]

alternative is DM is just nuking the campaign when players decide to rest?
that is also not good game play.

Saying that resting for a day will result in consequences is not DM deciding when people rest.

Some might say that is exactly good game play

 

[Quartz]

What would your chart look like?

I would change casters to be based on a short rest.

@mpwylie made a chart here:

M

D&D 5E Post in thread 'How would you balance this modification to spellcasters?'

May 31, 2018

Thanks for doing the analysis; I was aware it would be a considerable boost without balance. So how would you balance it? How about reducing the base casting slots?

Yes, I would rework the slot layout for both full and half casters. I would also tweak your reset mechanic a bit and make it reset slots of prof bonus -1 for full casters and prof bonus -2 for half casters. It would likely take some playtesting and tweaking to find the sweet spot, but I'll take a stab.

For full casters:
Spell slots
lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th...

• mpwylie

• 

Yes, I would rework the slot layout for both full and half casters. I would also tweak your reset mechanic a bit and make it reset slots of prof bonus -1 for full casters and prof bonus -2 for half casters. It would likely take some playtesting and tweaking to find the sweet spot, but I'll take a stab.

Spell slots
lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1 1
2 2
3 2 1
4 2 1
5 2 1 1
6 2 2 1
7 3 2 1 1
8 3 2 2 1
9 3 2 2 1 1
10 3 3 2 2 1
11 3 3 2 2 1 1
12 3 3 2 2 2 1
13 3 3 2 2 2 1 1
14 3 3 2 2 2 1 1
15 3 3 2 2 2 1 1 1
16 3 3 2 2 2 1 1 1
17 3 3 2 2 2 1 1 1 1
18 3 3 2 2 2 1 1 1 1
19 3 3 2 2 2 2 1 1 1
20 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 1 1

Spellcasters recover 1 spell per spell level up to (Prof Bonus -1) on a Short Rest and 1 spell per spell level on a Long Rest

 

[M_Natas]

In general, pace of rest is a "gentleman's agreement" between DM and the players.
DM needs to know when to give players a brake and players need to trust DM that the job is well done and not be crybabies and rest when full casters are at 80% of spell slots.

alternative is DM is just nuking the campaign when players decide to rest?
that is also not good game play.

if players want to take many Long rests, just throw Deadly++ encounters at them and probably Deadly surprise when the take a rest.

I don't like to use narrative force to fix rules problems. I'd rather fix the rules.

 

[Horwath]

I don't like to use narrative force to fix rules problems. I'd rather fix the rules.

there are no rules on when players can and cannot take a rest. Unless they are in constant combat.

taking rest is narrative force.

 

[M_Natas]

I have time and again seen number of slots brought up as a way to control spellcaster advantages in power and utility. BUT how about using Spell Schools as a control mechanism. Limiting access to 2-3 schools at level one and gaining access to further schools as the character levels up.

To delve further into spell school control would be the idea of minor and major access ie minor access being spell levels 1-4 and major access 6-8. Even this can be further manipulated by changing the level spread or introducing an intermediate access.

I created that kind of wizard 2 years ago:

D&D General Post in thread 'The Specialist Wizard - the Wizard 2.0'

Oct 26, 2023

I do like the idea of Spell Experimentation and later Spell Fusion, give a bit more thought to the mechanics involved with that and let Generalist freely swamp energy types and other features to create their own spells to fill the school of their choice.
Maybe even let them dip into non-Arcane spells via the fusion feature

What else could we change in spell via a class feature - maybe duration. Spell components. Targets.

Non-Arcane Spells is an idea - like, the generalist can choose spells from proficient schools of magic of the cleric, druid or Bard spell list (or primal/divine...

• M_Natas

• 

 

[M_Natas]

there are no rules on when players can and cannot take a rest. Unless they are in constant combat.

taking rest is narrative force.

It is a game mechanic with narrative consequences. But basically forcing a Deadly encounter on the oarty everytime when they take a rest the DM doesn't like not only becomes old but also doesn't fit in a lot of typical adventures.

 

[Horwath]

It is a game mechanic with narrative consequences. But basically forcing a Deadly encounter on the oarty everytime when they take a rest the DM doesn't like not only becomes old but also doesn't fit in a lot of typical adventures.

not every time, but there should be suggested that taking rest in non fortified area will cause and ambush more likely that not.
and if encounter is not at least Deadly why bother running it?

unless it's a bar fight for bar fight sake.

 

[Guest 7037866]

@KentHusker Don't smiley spam like a coward. If you want to laugh at me, do it in a post.

If you haven't already, you can report this abuse to the mods.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Simulacrum is probably fine. Stepping back from game balance for a moment, within most settings one could probably cast a better (i.e. able to rest, heal, and gain experience) "summon martial" with enough gold to cast the spell in the first place... by hiring somebody for 1,500 GP.

Simulacrum costs 1,500 GP worth of powdered ruby to cast. No powdered ruby, no simulacrum. Maybe some narcissistic wizard somewhere with a tower full of simulacra of themselves is buying all the rubies up.

You know, I also wonder how much of this Simulacrum abuse really happens at actual tables. Are you folks all seeing this in your own games, and that's why everyone seems bent out of shape? Or is this a more of a potential and theoretical issue?