D&D (2024) Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024

[Horwath]

there should be clear rules about distance modifier to stealth and terrain modifier to stealth.
since we cannot have fixed +/-X in 5e and all must be with advantage/disadvantage, have every terrain a stealth "score"

clear terrain: unable to stealth(except with some exceptions)
light cover/concealment: stealth with disadvantage
cover: normal stealth checks:
heavy cover: stealth with disadvantage


distance:
closer than 30ft: stealth with disadvantage
distance of 31-60ft: normal stealth check
farther than 60ft: stealth with advantage

 

[UngeheuerLich]

there should be clear rules about distance modifier to stealth and terrain modifier to stealth.
since we cannot have fixed +/-X in 5e and all must be with advantage/disadvantage, have every terrain a stealth "score"

clear terrain: unable to stealth(except with some exceptions)
light cover/concealment: stealth with disadvantage
cover: normal stealth checks:
heavy cover: stealth with disadvantage


distance:
closer than 30ft: stealth with disadvantage
distance of 31-60ft: normal stealth check
farther than 60ft: stealth with advantage

We have encounter distance and search DCs. And we have advantage/disadvantage for travelling pace.

So while the rules you seek are missing, tgere are at least some rules that might help decide how tongenerally handle it.

 

[MerricB]

I just pointed out the Invisibility condition and Hide action to a friend who is even more of a rules lawyer than me.

One of his comments: "Nowhere does the 'invisible' condition state that you can't be seen."

Huh. So the invisibility spell... grants you advantage on initiative checks and that's about it?

 

[BigZebra]

I just pointed out the Invisibility condition and Hide action to a friend who is even more of a rules lawyer than me.

One of his comments: "Nowhere does the 'invisible' condition state that you can't be seen."

Huh. So the invisibility spell... grants you advantage on initiative checks and that's about it?

This was exactly what I thought when I first read it. But then the box "Unseen Attackers and Targets" talks about "...a target you can't see..." and even though it doesn't mention the Invisible condition, it would be reasonable to assumes that "invisible" would fall under "a target you cant' see".

 

[briggart]

Then I read the rules

That right there was your mistake. 5e rules are not written to withstand this level of in depth scrutiny. You just get in the zone and go with the flow!

 

[MerricB]

That right there was your mistake. 5e rules are not written to withstand this level of in depth scrutiny. You just get in the zone and go with the flow!

The old Stealth rules worked that way, but then the 2024 rules spent a lot of time trying to define hiding more strictly!

 

[Hussar]

I’m sorry, do you intuitively expect a different result than magical invisibility making you unable to be seen when a creature looks directly at you, and hiding not doing that?

Yes. Absolutely. Because I am capable of realizing that words can have more than one meaning.

 

[aiouh]

I'm not familiar with PF2, but reading these rules it sounds like it would be impossible to hide from someone and then move out of cover to backstab them during a fight... which makes me not like those rules at all. Stealth needed a buff for the sake of rogues, and the fantasy of being the sneaky attacker. I'm glad 2024 is more permissive here. If it takes the invisible condition for them to let it work then so be it.

That is not an issue because Paizo wisely recognized that in-combat hiding is too contingent on GM Fiat and wonky rulings so they changed sneak attack to not care about stealth exclusively, but includes all ways to trigger Off-Guard. (Which is how they buffed Rogue in 2024 with Vex Mastery btw)

Rogue - Classes - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

You are skilled and opportunistic. Using your sharp wits and quick reactions, you take advantage of your opponents’ missteps and strike where it hurts most. You play a dangerous game, seeking thrills and testing your skills, and likely don’t care much for any laws that happen to get in your way...

2e.aonprd.com

Sneak Attack​

When your enemy can't properly defend itself, you take advantage to deal extra damage. If you Strike a creature that has the off-guard condition with an agile or finesse melee weapon, an agile or finesse unarmed attack, a ranged weapon attack, or a ranged unarmed attack, you deal an extra 1d6 precision damage. For a ranged attack with a thrown melee weapon, that weapon must also be agile or finesse.

One of the easiest way to achieve off-guard is just flanking.

 

[Parmandur]

I just pointed out the Invisibility condition and Hide action to a friend who is even more of a rules lawyer than me.

One of his comments: "Nowhere does the 'invisible' condition state that you can't be seen."

Huh. So the invisibility spell... grants you advantage on initiative checks and that's about it?

OK, that is failing to take into count the tezt of the Spell: the Invisible Comdition while under the illusion can only be broken by the specific actions laid out, so under the Spell the character doesn't lose hiding by moving around or even necessarily the way ways stated in the Invisible Condition.

 

[Reynard]

I just pointed out the Invisibility condition and Hide action to a friend who is even more of a rules lawyer than me.

One of his comments: "Nowhere does the 'invisible' condition state that you can't be seen."

Huh. So the invisibility spell... grants you advantage on initiative checks and that's about it?

That's hilarious. I guess they are assuming that it is built into the same of the condition? That might have some negative downstream impacts on other conditions, such as Incapacitated -- which is not what it is called.

I am beginning to think they saved money on an editor...